Obama disagrees with high court on child rape case

Diuretic said:
If Blackstone were alive today he'd say, "shit happens". And so does it make it better that because shit happens someone who is totally innocent should be made to suffer?
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No, hence the argument for the harsh punishment for child rape.
 
blackascoal said:
Damn .. the Supreme Court finally gets something right and Obama is against it.

As reprehensible as rape is, you cannot execute people for rape. This is a slippery slope that opens the door for redefining all sorts of non-fatal, but reprehensible crimes to be open to death penalty convictions.

What's next, cut off their limbs for theft?

Instead of expanding the death penalty we should be limiting it given that we've executed innocent people. The death penalty should require, as previously stated, an ironclad no doubt, no eyewitness testimony, DNA proven prosecution.

I don't get this .. Obama is from Illinois where the republican governor had the intelligence and courage to suspend all death penalty cases because even he saw the flaw in the system.

It's getting harder to define what Obama believes and/or why he believes it.
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I agree 100% with everything you have said here. I’d prefer to see it outlawed, but as I’ve stated, which some retards have a problem grasping; I just don’t care if we were to only execute child murderers. I’m not rooting for it, I don’t care. Just keep them off the streets, forever, one way or the other.
 
Diuretic said:
If Blackstone were alive today he'd say, "shit happens". And so does it make it better that because shit happens someone who is totally innocent should be made to suffer?
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No, and I think Thorn spoke very nicely to that early on in the thread. If you were only going to apply the death penalty in cases of child murder, you would also at the same time, ascertain that you need DNA, forensics, 100% no doubt, guilty. Do you know how some of these guys are caught? With a basement filled with dead rabbits. You know what they died from? Yeah. (I couldn’t believe that one either, but it’s true) You know what happens when they get their hands on a child? These are monsters walking around on two legs. There is no rehabilitation. If we can put them away for life with no parole, fine. But if some states want to execute them, and only them, with 100% certainty of guilt, and provided they have competent legal council, I can’t get upset over it, I’m sorry.
 
Darla said:
I agree 100% with everything you have said here. I’d prefer to see it outlawed, but as I’ve stated, which some retards have a problem grasping; I just don’t care if we were to only execute child murderers. I’m not rooting for it, I don’t care. Just keep them off the streets, forever, one way or the other.
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I agree with you .. except that they aren't talking about child murderers, they're talking about child rapists. We can't kill people for rape. We don't even do an adequate job of killing people for murder.

The bigger question here is why does Obama disagree with the Supreme Court? In his response, he even invoked a states rights argument.

So we have a so-called liberal African-American running for president who agrees with the death penalty and speaks of states rights. Huh?

I know it may appear that I'm being overly critical of Obama, but the only reason I support him is because of the positions he takes. When he starts taking different positions, politically expedient positions on vitally critical issues, then he should be criticized just like everybody else.
 
Darla said:
No, and I think Thorn spoke very nicely to that early on in the thread. If you were only going to apply the death penalty in cases of child murder, you would also at the same time, ascertain that you need DNA, forensics, 100% no doubt, guilty. Do you know how some of these guys are caught? With a basement filled with dead rabbits. You know what they died from? Yeah. (I couldn’t believe that one either, but it’s true) You know what happens when they get their hands on a child? These are monsters walking around on two legs. There is no rehabilitation. If we can put them away for life with no parole, fine. But if some states want to execute them, and only them, with 100% certainty of guilt, and provided they have competent legal council, I can’t get upset over it, I’m sorry.
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Bac is on the money with this point. You'll start to open up the door to other non leathal crimes being considered for the death penalty. Its easy to creep the door open with the face of a child molester as your monster. Even today the death penalty is only supposed to be applied in cases where you're 100% positive on the perp, but we're finding that's not necessariy true. Giving our legal system more powers is not the answer.
 
blackascoal said:
I agree with you .. except that they aren't talking about child murderers, they're talking about child rapists. We can't kill people for rape. We don't even do an adequate job of killing people for murder.

The bigger question here is why does Obama disagree with the Supreme Court? In his response, he even invoked a states rights argument.

So we have a so-called liberal African-American running for president who agrees with the death penalty and speaks of states rights. Huh?

I know it may appear that I'm being overly critical of Obama, but the only reason I support him is because of the positions he takes. When he starts taking different positions, politically expedient positions on vitally critical issues, then he should be criticized just like everybody else.
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Because he doesn’t want to have to defend against a “Obama wants to apologize to the child rapists and set them free” campaign. That’s what they do. You know how many times I’ve seen them say, about Gore, “it’s a good thing he wasn’t president he would have apologized to the terrorists after 9/11”? I mean, they are crazy.

But I agree with you, it was the right decision. And I do think that Obama is moving too far to the right for the general. That’s what Hillary did in the primary, because she was running a general election campaign then. That’s why she lost the primary. I understand that he can’t do everything that his base wants, but he better take a page out of the republicans book: You don’t spit in your base’s face either.
 
LadyT said:
Bac is on the money with this point. You'll start to open up the door to other non leathal crimes being considered for the death penalty. Its easy to creep the door open with the face of a child molester as your monster. Even today the death penalty is only supposed to be applied in cases where you're 100% positive on the perp, but we're finding that's not necessariy true. Giving our legal system more powers is not the answer.
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PLEASE tell me .. how could he not know that?
 
id venture to say that when the constitution was written and the words about cruel and unusual punishment were put into it... they didn't have in mind an outlaw of the death penalty when at the time they would publicly executed horse thieves in places like Faneuil hall market.
 
Darla said:
Because he doesn’t want to have to defend against a “Obama wants to apologize to the child rapists and set them free” campaign. That’s what they do. You know how many times I’ve seen them say, about Gore, “it’s a good thing he wasn’t president he would have apologized to the terrorists after 9/11”? I mean, they are crazy.

But I agree with you, it was the right decision. And I do think that Obama is moving too far to the right for the general. That’s what Hillary did in the primary, because she was running a general election campaign then. That’s why she lost the primary. I understand that he can’t do everything that his base wants, but he better take a page out of the republicans book: You don’t spit in your base’s face either.
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Obama has advantages Gore and Kerry did not have.

1. Obama voters will vote on still imperfect voting machines, but the machines and the process are much better than they were in 2000, and 2004.

2. Obama has George Bush, the full blown version, a diminshed and rejected Republican Party, and the mot seriously flawed candidate in John McCain to run against.

3. Obama has incredible resources and an energized electorate behind him.

4. The vaunted republican attack machine has been reduced to desperation because most Americans see it for what it is .. which is why Rev. Wright didn't stick.

He doesn't need to bend over and take it up his ass to win this election.

I smell serious weakness.
 
"I smell serious weakness."

You're reading too much into this one. First, if it's strictly a pander, it's a smart one, because his opinion is basically moot when it comes to the death penalty. Yes, Presidents appoint justices, but I doubt very seriously that this one issue represents a litmus test for the kind of justices a President Obama would favor.

Second, the death penalty is one of those murky issues that some people who lean left on just about everything else support. A lot is tied into personal experience. I have no reason to doubt his conviction on this, or his opinion.
 
LadyT said:
Bac is on the money with this point. You'll start to open up the door to other non leathal crimes being considered for the death penalty. Its easy to creep the door open with the face of a child molester as your monster. Even today the death penalty is only supposed to be applied in cases where you're 100% positive on the perp, but we're finding that's not necessariy true. Giving our legal system more powers is not the answer.
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Tiana, I never even meant to imply that I would agree with applying the death penalty in the cases this decision was based on. I mean only that, in cases of child murder.
 
Thorn said:
I agree so long as with respect to the death penalty we go for "NO doubt", as opposed to the "reasonable doubt" required for conviction. There should be irrefutable forensic evidence to prove beyond any doubt that the person convicted really did it. That hurdle overcome, fry the bastard.
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I agree 100%.

Everyone that is on death row that was convicted without DNA evidence or 100% proof of guilt should have their sentences commuted to life in prison.

But for these scum.... when proven they raped a kid. Castrate them, Amputate their limbs, stick em on a stake in the desert and leave them to rot. Ok, maybe that is a tad harsh... give them a cookie before putting them on the stake.
 
Onceler said:
"I smell serious weakness."

You're reading too much into this one. First, if it's strictly a pander, it's a smart one, because his opinion is basically moot when it comes to the death penalty. Yes, Presidents appoint justices, but I doubt very seriously that this one issue represents a litmus test for the kind of justices a President Obama would favor.

Second, the death penalty is one of those murky issues that some people who lean left on just about everything else support. A lot is tied into personal experience. I have no reason to doubt his conviction on this, or his opinion.
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This isn't the only decision he's made lately that brings up an ordor of weakness .. but even just using this one .. murder is no benign thing that can be fluffed off as "moot" my brother .. and we are talking about murdering people. I also disagree about the level of his influence because standards and the toine of justice comes from the top. He's goiing to chose an Attorney General who is going to set the tone that state and local governments will follow.

You may not doubt his conviction and I respect that .. but on this, I do. This is more political expediency, not conviction.
 
My sense is that Obama thinks the death penalty is constitutional and that child rape is one of the most heinous crimes that a person can commit. If you think those two things it isn't really a stretch to say that the death penalty is constitutional for child rape.
 
Dungheap said:
My sense is that Obama thinks the death penalty is constitutional and that child rape is one of the most heinous crimes that a person can commit. If you think those two things it isn't really a stretch to say that the death penalty is constitutional for child rape.
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That’s true. This is such a f’d up subject. A lot of what is left out of these stories is kind of pertinent. I know a lot about this, way more than I ever wanted to, for work reasons. A lot of these young girls who this happens to, they need reconstructive surgery to repair them; some will never have children because of the rape.

This is one of those things that can tear you down the middle, trying to do what’s right. I just finally come down on the side of; get them the fuck off the street, forever. I have to say that while I just don’t believe we should expand the death penalty, I don’t think that believing differently, in these cases of child rape, is an indefensible position.

The question is does Obama really hold that position honestly? The way he is caving on shit and running to the right lately, I have my doubts.
 
Dungheap said:
My sense is that Obama thinks the death penalty is constitutional and that child rape is one of the most heinous crimes that a person can commit. If you think those two things it isn't really a stretch to say that the death penalty is constitutional for child rape.
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All rape is heinous and deplorable .. why not then murder people for all rape.

The Constitution is interpretive, but what is real is the process and function of American courts is dysfunctional and we execute and convict innocent people all the time.

Do you know how much presssure is put on a DA to convict somebody, anybody of raping a child?

This guy would have been murdered by the courts 14 years ago.

Chicago Tribune

DNA exonerates man convicted of sex assault

DNA tests have exonerated a South Side man who has served nearly 14 years in prison for the sexual assault of a 15-year-old girl who was attacked in the fall of 1994 as she walked to school near 69th and State.

Have you heard of the term "short eyes"? You don't ever want to go to prison with that tag on you. It means you're a child-rapists and prisoners you're going to be locked up with are going to make your life a living hell .. unless they kill you .. which happens a lot to those with the tag.

Don't get it twisted, I have no sympathy for the guilty ones .. but what about this guy?
 
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