October 7, - cause and effect

Walt said:
The Philistines were an Indo-European people related to the Greeks.
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How do you know they were related to the Greeks? Are you saying that they were related because they were both homo sapiens?

When you use the term Indo-European ... do you effectively mean Eurasian?
 
IBDaMann said:
You understand incorrectly. I don't like the fact that you are claiming to be solving the "conflict" when you are merely trying to advance a differing political agenda. Between the two of us, I am the one trying to end the "conflict."


How does this resolve the current conflict? Hint: it doesn't. If the world were to recognize Palestine from the river to the sea, the 2nd Nakba would still be underway and the IDF would still be slaughtering children. The conflict would not have been ended.


All that does is derail conversations concerned with ending the conflict.

End the conflict first, then push your agenda afterwards.
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And there is no other agenda other than to end the conflict by creating the state of Palestine, as provided for by the UN decision of 1947.
 
Alik Bahshi said:
And there is no other agenda other than to end the conflict by creating the state of Palestine, as provided for by the UN decision of 1947.
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Nope. Universal acknowledgement of the 1947 partition plan would not somehow end the current conflict.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that the free Philistine State was never implemented, i.e. the British left but no free Philishtina ensued. Your argument is a good one and rests on a solid foundation. In fact, you should have posted a link to UN Resolution 181.

... but you approached this in the wrong manner, in a somewhat dishonest manner, of pretending that this would resolve the current conflict. Your agenda has nothing to do with the current conflict. You should stop using that wording.
 
Alik Bahshi said:
If I ignored, as you say, the Arab-Israeli conflict, I would not open a topic about it. I understand that you don’t like the fact that I see a solution to the conflict in ending Israel’s occupation of Palestine and creating a state called Palestine, as conceived by the UN in 1947. Today, thanks to the Palestinian resistance, even President Biden has spoken about the need to create a state of Palestine.
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At 16 seconds, Ro Khanna loses the argument he's making. From there, it is downhill. His whole diatribe is a one-sided list of leading questions that demand answers that affirm his political position. You don't win allies by browbeating them with complex questions.

Palestine is as fucked up as it is due solely to one cause: The Palestinians. No--NO--solution will work so long as the Palestinians themselves remain committed to hatred of Jews and the destruction of Israel. At the same time, the Palestinians are so militarily incompetent they will never win in a war of any level vs. Israel. Until Palestinians change those views and decide on a viable course of action into the future, they will remain a small, annoying, and insignificant people.
 
IBDaMann said:
Nope. Universal acknowledgement of the 1947 partition plan would not somehow end the current conflict.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that the free Philistine State was never implemented, i.e. the British left but no free Philishtina ensued. Your argument is a good one and rests on a solid foundation. In fact, you should have posted a link to UN Resolution 181.

... but you approached this in the wrong manner, in a somewhat dishonest manner, of pretending that this would resolve the current conflict. Your agenda has nothing to do with the current conflict. You should stop using that wording.
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I will decide what I should do without you. The current escalation of the conflict is a consequence of Israel's seizure of territory intended for a Palestinian state. The leaders of Israel do not know what to do, the whole world is increasingly taking the side of the Palestinian Arabs, because only Israel stopping the genocide and withdrawing the Israeli army from Palestine is the only correct decision. There is no other way, and the leaders of Israel realize this.
 
Alik Bahshi said:
I will decide what I should do without you.
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Great pivot. You have all the reasoning of a petulent child throwing a temper tantrum. Are you expecting me to be humbled by your brow-beating into accepting your dishonesty? Good luck with that.

Oh, and by the way, when I mention that you should include a link to relevant documents, I do so as a courtesy to you. When you don't and find that no one pays any attention to you, it won't come as any surprise.

Alik Bahshi said:
The current escalation of the conflict is a consequence of Israel's seizure of territory intended for a Palestinian state.
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The current conflict is a direct result of the Big Bang. You have added nothing of value to the discussion and you have not offered any viable means to end the current conflict.

Alik Bahshi said:
The leaders of Israel do not know what to do,
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The leaders of Israel are doing exactly what they have always wanted to do.

Alik Bahshi said:
... the whole world is increasingly taking the side of the Palestinian Arabs,
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Time marches on and nobody, including you, is making any effort to end the conflict.

Alik Bahshi said:
... because only Israel stopping the genocide and withdrawing the Israeli army from Palestine is the only correct decision.
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This is what I have been saying all along, and you are only now changing your tune to agree with me. If you had simply agreed with me nine or ten posts prior, we wouldn't have needlessly wasted all the bandwidth that we did.

OK, so now that we are both in agreement that Israel stopping the genocide is the only possible end to the conflict, how should the world get Israel to stop the genocide? Israelis HATE Arabs too much for them to just not kill all the Arabs they can, especially Arab children. Something very convincing needs to be done to get them to cease and desist. What suggestions do you have? My suggestion is to have all countries who provide weapons and funding to Israel, e.g. US, Germany, etc., stop completely and let Israel either cease and desist or deplete what they have. Then, aid that would have been intended for Israel would be redirected to rebuilding Gaza until Gaza is rebuilt. If Israelis want aid returned sooner then they can assist in the rebuilding of the Gaza they destroyed in violation of the Geneva Conventions.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
At 16 seconds, Ro Khanna loses the argument he's making. From there, it is downhill. His whole diatribe is a one-sided list of leading questions that demand answers that affirm his political position. You don't win allies by browbeating them with complex questions.

Palestine is as fucked up as it is due solely to one cause: The Palestinians. No--NO--solution will work so long as the Palestinians themselves remain committed to hatred of Jews and the destruction of Israel. At the same time, the Palestinians are so militarily incompetent they will never win in a war of any level vs. Israel. Until Palestinians change those views and decide on a viable course of action into the future, they will remain a small, annoying, and insignificant people.
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By defining Palestinians as people who irritate you, you are labeling them Arabs because Palestinians are the same Arabs who live in Lebanon, Egypt, and other Arab countries. But this is your personal opinion, with which, on the one hand, I cannot agree, but on the other hand, you have the right to have your own opinion. And I'm not going to convince you otherwise. For example, Russians consider Ukrainians to be fascists, but other nations call Russians fascists, and at the same time prove this with facts known to everyone. I understand your irritation, but you are unable to stop the desires of the Palestinian Arabs for freedom, and you can continue to be irritated by the people who gave names to the stars, the science of chemistry owes to the Arab alchemists, the people who created palaces that delight contemporaries, the numbers that the whole world uses are called namely Arabs, and you continue to be irritated, because you have the right to do so in accordance with your mental, as you consider superiority over the Arabs. Your remarkable mental superiority over the Arabs is well demonstrated by your avatar.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
At 16 seconds, Ro Khanna loses the argument he's making.
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At 16 seconds, Ro Khanna hits too close to home for the comfort of immoral Team Israel shits, i.e two-faced, two-sided genocide deniers who need to characterize his questions/inquiry as being an "argument" that he somehow "lost."

T. A. Gardner said:
Palestine is as fucked up as it is due solely to one cause:
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... due to the Israeli-perpetrated Holocaust 2.0, as thunderously applauded by immoral Team Israel shits.

How many Arab children do you hope bite it this month while you laugh it up and claim they totally deserve it, after you ask "what genocide"?

T. A. Gardner said:
... so long as the Palestinians themselves remain committed to hatred of Jews and the destruction of Israel.
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You actually assign hatred and malicious intentions to innocent civilian noncombatants as your way of justifying Israel's slaughter of those innocent civilian noncombatants. You are a totally irrational and immoral shit.

T. A. Gardner said:
At the same time, the Palestinians are so militarily incompetent they will never win in a war of any level vs. Israel.
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Gazans aren't attacking anyone. They are simply being slaughtered for being lawful non-combatant Arabs.

T. A. Gardner said:
Until Palestinians change those views ...
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... that you assigned, yet you say nothing about Israelis who are actively killing Arabs by the thousands purely out of RACIST HATRED. I've encountered shit that didn't stink nearly as much.

T. A. Gardner said:
... and decide on a viable course of action into the future,
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Gazans are being handed only one option: death, while Gaza is destroyed. Your pretense that they somehow have options, and they are somehow responsible for their own genocide shows that you have no moral backbone whatsoever.

T. A. Gardner said:
they will remain a small, annoying, and insignificant people.
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Once they are dead, they will remain dead.
 
The most interesting thing is that Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu, who promised to destroy Hamas after the terrorist attack on November 7, does not know what he will do next. He has no plan for what he will do after killing the Hamas militants, even if he succeeds. The fact is that the idea of freedom cannot be killed.
 
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Alik Bahshi said:
By defining Palestinians as people who irritate you, you are labeling them Arabs because Palestinians are the same Arabs who live in Lebanon, Egypt, and other Arab countries. But this is your personal opinion, with which, on the one hand, I cannot agree, but on the other hand, you have the right to have your own opinion. And I'm not going to convince you otherwise. For example, Russians consider Ukrainians to be fascists, but other nations call Russians fascists, and at the same time prove this with facts known to everyone. I understand your irritation, but you are unable to stop the desires of the Palestinian Arabs for freedom, and you can continue to be irritated by the people who gave names to the stars, the science of chemistry owes to the Arab alchemists, the people who created palaces that delight contemporaries, the numbers that the whole world uses are called namely Arabs, and you continue to be irritated, because you have the right to do so in accordance with your mental, as you consider superiority over the Arabs. Your remarkable mental superiority over the Arabs is well demonstrated by your avatar.
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I'm a realist. The Palestinians as a people have been stirring up shit with their neighbors for forever. They tried to overthrow the government of Jordan, so Jordan drove them out of the country. They're part of why Lebanon collapsed into chaos. Libya and Tunisia ran them out for causing trouble there. The Egyptians don't want them in their country for the same reasons. All those Arab countries consider them a separate group or even race.

But the fact remains that none of the Arab countries want them in their land because they have a long history of stirring up shit.

If Palestine and the Palestinians truly want peace and to grow, they should stop fighting each other and their neighbors and start making a solid and worthwhile society and civilization out of what they have.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
I'm a realist. The Palestinians as a people have been stirring up shit with their neighbors for forever. They tried to overthrow the government of Jordan, so Jordan drove them out of the country. They're part of why Lebanon collapsed into chaos. Libya and Tunisia ran them out for causing trouble there. The Egyptians don't want them in their country for the same reasons. All those Arab countries consider them a separate group or even race.

But the fact remains that none of the Arab countries want them in their land because they have a long history of stirring up shit.

If Palestine and the Palestinians truly want peace and to grow, they should stop fighting each other and their neighbors and start making a solid and worthwhile society and civilization out of what they have.
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What do you mean the Palestinians are always making trouble for their neighbors? I understand that you mean refugees who fled to neighboring Arab countries, where they live in refugee camps. According to the UN, there are about 4.7 million. The largest number of Palestinian refugees are in Jordan, they make up almost 50%. Naturally, refugees in such numbers pose a problem. You are lying that the Arabs are indifferent to the fate of Palestine. It was precisely because they wanted to help the Palestinian Arabs that Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq and Algeria fought with Israel. And your reasoning about the inferiority of the Palestinians is more like the reasoning of a racist.
 
Alik Bahshi said:
It was precisely because they wanted to help the Palestinian Arabs that Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq and Algeria fought with Israel.
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It’s a complicated situation. Those Arab countries fought for the Palestinians against Israel so they wouldn’t have to deal with Palestinians. They DO NOT want Palestinians in their countries.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
The Palestinian government of Gaza, Hamas, attacked Israel in a surprise offensive, a Pearl Harbor if you will, on October 7th. Unfortunately for Hamas their military component sucks at fighting wars.

Israel took that declaration of war, mobilized their far superior army, and much like the US stomping on Japan, Israel stomped on Gaza, Hamas, and the Palestinians.

It's stupid to go to war when you have no chance of winning.
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It's stupid for you to nominate Donald Trump who has no chance at winning! :palm:

NOW THAT'S FUCKING REALLY STUPID! :laugh:
 
anonymoose said:
It’s a complicated situation. Those Arab countries fought for the Palestinians against Israel so they wouldn’t have to deal with Palestinians. They DO NOT want Palestinians in their countries.
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Your reasoning is very similar to Putin’s reasoning that Russia was forced to attack so that Ukraine would not attack Russia. My dear, if you have facts that the Palestinians threatened to attack Arab countries, then share, it would be very interesting to get acquainted with them.
 
Alik Bahshi said:
What do you mean the Palestinians are always making trouble for their neighbors? I understand that you mean refugees who fled to neighboring Arab countries, where they live in refugee camps. According to the UN, there are about 4.7 million. The largest number of Palestinian refugees are in Jordan, they make up almost 50%. Naturally, refugees in such numbers pose a problem. You are lying that the Arabs are indifferent to the fate of Palestine. It was precisely because they wanted to help the Palestinian Arabs that Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq and Algeria fought with Israel. And your reasoning about the inferiority of the Palestinians is more like the reasoning of a racist.
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That last is bullshit. The various Arab countries didn't want a Jewish state and declared war on Israel. The didn't give a shit about the Palestinians then (1948) and they don't give a shit about them today.
 
anonymoose said:
It’s a complicated situation. Those Arab countries fought for the Palestinians against Israel so they wouldn’t have to deal with Palestinians. They DO NOT want Palestinians in their countries.
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It's more a case of the Arab nations didn't want a Jewish state and they didn't give a shit about the Palestinians.
 
Alik Bahshi said:
Your reasoning is very similar to Putin’s reasoning that Russia was forced to attack so that Ukraine would not attack Russia. My dear, if you have facts that the Palestinians threatened to attack Arab countries, then share, it would be very interesting to get acquainted with them.
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Nope , you got it completely and totally wrong. The Palestinians are incapable of attacking anyone other than with terror. The Arab countries simply don’t want Palestinians in their country.
 
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