Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
I have to correct you here. There are no versions of reality. It just is or as Aristotle would have said "reality is real". Having said that, Dixie is in la la land. He's been wrong on virtually every issue he's supported.
Oh, But It's NOT Nation Building!
- Thread starter Dixie - In Memoriam
- Start date
I have to correct you here. There are no versions of reality. It just is or as Aristotle would have said "reality is real". Having said that, Dixie is in la la land. He's been wrong on virtually every issue he's supported.
Kamala Trump
Verified User
Of course there are different version of reality. A strength and weakness of humans is our ability to learn from others, who may or may not be lying to us.
hardly anything we think we know of reality has been confirmed by ourselves firsthand.
This is why illumati revisionism is so pernicious.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Oh great, now I"m taking lessons on reality from the boards resident delusional paranoid. What's wrong with this picture?
Kamala Trump
Verified User
Oh great, now I"m taking lessons on reality from the boards resident delusional paranoid. What's wrong with this picture?
Thing is, Im usually right. What's wrong is your idiocy.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Kindly tell us about Afghanistan's capability of striking US soil? They have no missiles capable of reaching the US, they have no jets capable of flying to the US, heck, they probably don't even have a boat seaworthy enough to make it to US shores. They are largely a 3rd world country, with very little military means to attack a superpower.
And Pakistan.... we keep forgetting to include Pakistan in this conversation! Under Bush, the nuclear-armed Pakistan was an ally, helping us in the fight against terrorism as best they could for a Muslim nation... under Obama, they are "the enemy" and we plan to unilaterally invade them, with no diplomatic effort, no UN approval, no exit strategy, and no coalition.
If it weren't so absolutely terrifying, it would be amusing to watch liberal pinheads turn into war hawks before our very eyes!
maineman
Banned
Afghanistan had, and I am sure still has, the capability of harboring nineteen AQ operatives who are capable of flying jet airplanes into American skyscrapers.
I have never heard Obama refer to the nation of Pakistan as our enemy. Pakistan may have been, and may continue to be our "ally", but they clearly do not have control over large areas of their own territory. It is in THOSE areas that Al Qaeda and Taliban extremists continue to operate freely and where they continue to train the next generations of terrorists who will, at some point, attempt to leave that area and initiate another assault on American soil or American interests.
I firmly believe, that if we had NOT fucked up and invaded Iraq, we would NOT now have this extensive a problem in that area...and the 2007 NIE which states that AQ is just as powerful and capable and dangerous to us as they were on 9/11, primarily because of the Iraq war.
And I have ALWAYS been a war hawk regarding Al Qaeda. You, on the other hand, have ALWAYS been a chickenhawk... perfectly willing to send other people's sons to fight and die for you, but not willing to actually do any fighting yourself. You'll recall, Dixie, that while some of us were content to man the keyboards in the fight against Al Qaeda, some of us actually volunteered to return to active duty to do more than just type about it.
Code:
Maineman:
I firmly believe, that if we had NOT fucked up and invaded Iraq, we would NOT now have this extensive a problem in that area...and the 2007 NIE which states that AQ is just as powerful and capable and dangerous to us as they were on 9/11, primarily because of the Iraq war.I know that kind of rhetoric was common in Democrat circles and msm but
Just for kicks I scanned the January 2007 NIE, the July 2007 NIE and the January 2008 NIE....all warning about Al Q. and OBL's desire to strike the USA...also a lot about AQI (A.Q. in Iraq) , their strengths and weaknesses in certain areas and at certain times, which could be construed as saying "powerful and capable", etc....
but I can't seem to locate where it states "that AQ is just as powerful and capable and dangerous to us as they were on 9/11, primarily because of the Iraq war"..
Particularly the part alleging "because of the Iraq war"..
Which of the 3 NIE's did you find that particular conclusion in...and a page # would be most helpful....I'd really like to read it and see how its presented in the NIE...
Bravo, it occurs to me that you really don't seem to know that much. Why should we do your research for you?
One NIE called Iraq a "cause celebre" for terrorist recruitment. Another said that AQ is just as strong now as they were in 2001. Yet another said that AQ was in a great position to attack the West again.
Look 'em up; find your own clauses. Educate yourself.
One NIE called Iraq a "cause celebre" for terrorist recruitment. Another said that AQ is just as strong now as they were in 2001. Yet another said that AQ was in a great position to attack the West again.
Look 'em up; find your own clauses. Educate yourself.
I read 'em for 2007...it isn't there....if you identify the NIE, I'll be glad to read it...just like your phantom PDB about Curveball...seems its gone to never-never land too....
Really, it you can't produce some proof for your claims, you might as well stfu...you could be right, but until you offer some proof, you're wasting good oxygen...
maineman
Banned
http://intelwire.egoplex.com/2007_07_17_exclusives.html
Al-Qa’ida is and will remain the most serious terrorist
threat to the Homeland, as its central leadership continues to
plan high-impact plots, while pushing others in extremist Sunni
communities to mimic its efforts and to supplement its
capabilities. We assess the group has protected or regenerated
key elements of its Homeland attack capability, including: a
safehaven in the Pakistan Federally Administered Tribal Areas
(FATA), operational lieutenants, and its top leadership. Although
we have discovered only a handful of individuals in the United
States with ties to al-Qa’ida senior leadership since 9/11,
we judge that al-Qa’ida will intensify its efforts to put
operatives here.
maineman
Banned
http://www.dni.gov/press_releases/Declassified_NIE_Key_Judgments.pdf
"The Iraq conflict has become the “cause celebre" for jihadists, breeding a deep resentment of US involvement in the Muslim world and cultivating supporters for the global jihadist movement."
"The Iraq conflict has become the “cause celebre" for jihadists, breeding a deep resentment of US involvement in the Muslim world and cultivating supporters for the global jihadist movement."
Cancel 2018. 3
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yes, they just loved us before that....they never chanted in their streets, death to america, they didn't dance in the streets on 9/11, they never attacked the US before....
moron
Bravo asked for a link.
And your rebuttal is weak. No, they didn't love us before that, but Iraq poured gas on the fire.
Cancel 2018. 3
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no it didn't...where were you when they were bitching about afghanistan....
its like you guys only focus on iraq and don't believe that afghanistan caused any backlash...we went after their precious taliban and removed an ISLAMIC government...difference is you dems support afghanistan but not iraq, so you blame it all on iraq....there is barely a muslim out there who doesn't like saddam gone, there are however many muslims out there who dislike that we removed an ISLAMIC government. stop being so partisan, it harms the country.
my rebuttal is quite good as you had to admit that they didn't love us before and wanted death to america before. so this insistance that iraq caused them to hate us is pure baloney.
In case you missed it:
""The Iraq conflict has become the “cause celebre" for jihadists, breeding a deep resentment of US involvement in the Muslim world and cultivating supporters for the global jihadist movement."
I'm not sure what about that you fail to comprehend, but clearly, the facts are not on your side.
It's very simplistic - almost childlike, really - to just say something like "oh, they hated us anyway, so it didn't really make a difference."
""The Iraq conflict has become the “cause celebre" for jihadists, breeding a deep resentment of US involvement in the Muslim world and cultivating supporters for the global jihadist movement."
I'm not sure what about that you fail to comprehend, but clearly, the facts are not on your side.
It's very simplistic - almost childlike, really - to just say something like "oh, they hated us anyway, so it didn't really make a difference."
Cancel 2018. 3
<-- sched 2, MJ sched 1
that is not fact, it is opinion, apparently you do not know the difference. are you actually suggesting that the islamic world is NOT upset about afghanistan? you sure seem bent on focusing all the anger in iraq....go to islamic websites and you will see that the majority of posts are angry about afghanistan more than iraq as they have to concede that saddam was bad, sure they are upset and angry at the US for invading a muslim land, but in iraq that did not remove an ISLAMIC government. that is a fact and if you can't see the difference not my problem.