On being a blank slate and "free will"

ZenMode said:
I'm definitely not going down the mystic/soul path when talking about our feeling that there is an "I" somewhere in our minds. I think we'd agree that our thoughts originate in our brains, but our subjective experience is that there is a self/I that is the author of those thoughts. When we are trying to make a decision, or when we have a desire to do something, we feel like we are the ones initiating that thought, not just having the thought arise in consciousness. There is a self that stands outside the flow of thought and that that self is doing the reasoning that is the basis for free will. Do you agree?
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Psyche is the Greek word for soul, breath, life. By the time we are 4 or 5, we are told how our world works: get a job, get married, buy a house. Almost everything we do is predetermined by society. Those who buck the system have free will.

Going down the psyche rabbit hole is worth the trip.
 
evince said:
It’s your party who thinks people have the right to abuse their animals
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Im a pro trump independant.

the party was shit before trump.

if someone doesn't pick up his antiglobalist focus, it will be back to shit.

I don't condone animal abuse.

neither do repukes as far as i know.
 
Jack said:
--->'There is a self that stands outside the flow of thought and that that self is doing the reasoning that is the basis for free will.'

Interesting. Yes, I've always thought the 'self/I' were the originator of those thoughts. I'm not sure I can visualize a 'self' that stands 'outside' (like a detached third party) the flow of thought, but I can see a 'self' that 'reasons' with a variety of thought and makes*'a decision' (Free Will). I'm trying to follow you here, I haven't ever given this much thought, but I'm having a hard time trying to detach 'self' from 'flow of thought'.
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If you really pay attention to the process of thinking, what you'll see is that thoughts just happen, whether we want them to or not, we can't stop them and we have no idea what they're going to be until they show up in consciousness. I mentioned previously, but how often are you doing something (work, watching TV, reading, etc) and some random thought suddenly pops into consciousness? "I really should stop drinking so much soda" or "Did I close the garage door when I got home" or "I should mow the front yard soon. It's looking pretty bad".

What we call reasoning is just the flow of subsequent thoughts, after the initial thought, arising in consciousness which we also don't control or initiate. They just happen as the initial thought did and those thoughts are dependent on the entirety of every external influence that has structured the neurological structure of your brain.

In order to have free will, there would have to be a self that exists outside the flow of thought/consciousness and had some visibility/control over the neurological activity that creates thoughts. There is no evidence of an I or self and what we subjectively view I and self is just our experience of thoughts flowing through consciousness.

As an experiment on the existence of free will, if you're willing to play along, take a few seconds, minute, whatever (before reading below) to think of some movies.

.


.

.

.

.

.

So, the first thing to be aware of is that this is about as free a choice as you'll ever make. The only real limitation is that you can't select movies that you've never heard of or don't exist, but you are quite literally free to pick ANY movies you want. No outside force is restricting you in any way.

Now, assuming you played along and have some movie titles in mind, here's the question: Were you free to pick a movie that didn't occur to you to pick? In other words, as movie titles were entering your consciousness, could you have picked one that didn't occur to you? For example, you've most definitely heard of Wizard of Oz, but due to the current status of your neurons in your brain, Wizard of Oz didn't occur to you.
 
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ZenMode said:
If you really pay attention to the process of thinking, what you'll see is that thoughts just happen, whether we want them to or not, we can't stop them and we have no idea what they're going to be until they show up in consciousness. I mentioned previously, but how often are you doing something (work, watching TV, reading, etc) and some random thought suddenly pops into consciousness? "I really should stop drinking so much soda" or "Did I close the garage door when I got home" or "I should mow the front yard soon. It's looking pretty bad".

What we call reasoning is just the flow of subsequent thoughts, after the initial thought, arising in consciousness, which we also don't control or initiate. They just happen as the initial thought did and those thoughts are dependent on the entirety of every external influence that has structured the neurological structure of your brain.

In order to have free will, there would have to be a self that exists outside the flow of thought/consciousness and had some visibility/control over the neurological activity that creates thoughts. There is no evidence of an I or self and what we subjectively view I and self is just our experience of thoughts flowing through consciousness.

As an experiment on the existence of free will, if you're willing to play along, take a few seconds, minute, whatever (before reading below) to think of some movies.

.


.

.

.

.

.

So, the first thing to be aware of is that this is about as free a choice as you'll ever make. The only real limitation is that you can't select movies that you've never heard of or don't exist, but you are quite literally free to pick ANY movies you want. No outside force is restricting you in any way.

Now, assuming you played along and have some movie titles in mind, here's the question: Were you free to pick a movie that didn't occur to you to pick? In other words, as movie titles were entering your consciousness, could you have picked one that didn't occur to you? For example, you've most definitely heard of Wizard of Oz, but due to the current status of your neurons in your brain, Wizard of Oz didn't occur to you.
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wrong.

they can be stopped, or at least highly attenuated.

you just want people to feel powerless, to deny our special human reasoning skills.

we are not dumb animals.

stop trying to dehumanize humanity, thanks.
 
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