On being a blank slate and "free will"

Jack said:
Zen: "Do most people think their brain is the I ..."
Jack: I can't speak for all, but I think that is the accepted Theory.

Zen: "... or do we feel like there is something else ..."
Jack: The 'mystic-types' allude to that. Basically claiming there is a 'Higher Power'. (no one being able to prove this in any way)

Zen: "something separate that maybe inside the brain, that is experiencing experiences, thinking thoughts, etc?"
Jack: Could be. Any proof? Lots of 'Theories' around.

(if there is a 'Soul', it's probably uniquely yours)
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I'm definitely not going down the mystic/soul path when talking about our feeling that there is an "I" somewhere in our minds. I think we'd agree that our thoughts originate in our brains, but our subjective experience is that there is a self/I that is the author of those thoughts. When we are trying to make a decision, or when we have a desire to do something, we feel like we are the ones initiating that thought, not just having the thought arise in consciousness. There is a self that stands outside the flow of thought and that that self is doing the reasoning that is the basis for free will. Do you agree?
 
ZenMode said:
I was reading through the CS Lewis topic and came across these two thoughts by Cypress that seem to be contradictory.

If our minds are blank slates and our thinking is based on what we learned, read, etc, how do we have free will?

"Our minds start out as blank slates, so to the extent we are "thinking for ourselves" it is almost entirely based on what we learned, read, digested, or considered from the work and ideas of others."

"Humans have the free will to act on a moral conscience, or not."
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You seem to have missed the word almost in the first thought of his


Next?
 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synaptogenesis


Synaptogenesis is the formation of synapses between neurons in the nervous system. Although it occurs throughout a healthy person's lifespan, an explosion of synapse formation occurs during early brain development, known as exuberant synaptogenesis.[1] Synaptogenesis is particularly important during an individual's critical period, during which there is a certain degree of synaptic pruning due to competition for neural growth factors by neurons and synapses. Processes that are not used, or inhibited during their critical period will fail to develop normally later on in life.[2]


Note the line about early childhood
 
Enjoy the new synapses this information can create in your brain


Learning is a beautiful thing huh


It beats the hell out of just trashing people who know more than you
 
Cypress said:
That does not reflect what I said.

I said we start out metaphorically as a blank slate, and then ultimately become the sum total of the experiences we choose to have.

I chose what kind of education to pursue, I chose what I want to read, what I wanted to learn, I chose what kind of friends to have, etc.
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And no one can stop our thoughts about the things we do learn


Unless we allow them to
 
ZenMode said:
I'm definitely not going down the mystic/soul path when talking about our feeling that there is an "I" somewhere in our minds. I think we'd agree that our thoughts originate in our brains, but our subjective experience is that there is a self/I that is the author of those thoughts. When we are trying to make a decision, or when we have a desire to do something, we feel like we are the ones initiating that thought, not just having the thought arise in consciousness. There is a self that stands outside the flow of thought and that that self is doing the reasoning that is the basis for free will. Do you agree?
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--->'There is a self that stands outside the flow of thought and that that self is doing the reasoning that is the basis for free will.'

Interesting. Yes, I've always thought the 'self/I' were the originator of those thoughts. I'm not sure I can visualize a 'self' that stands 'outside' (like a detached third party) the flow of thought, but I can see a 'self' that 'reasons' with a variety of thought and makes*'a decision' (Free Will). I'm trying to follow you here, I haven't ever given this much thought, but I'm having a hard time trying to detach 'self' from 'flow of thought'.
 
Althea said:
Wrong. When you domesticate a dog, you become the alpha. When you beat your dog, they use reason (not instinct) to know that obeying a command brings a bad result.
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but they still need to eat.
they will become more docile to avoid angering the alpha.
but self preservation rules this.
 
ZenMode said:
It seems you're really, really scared of the possibility that we don't have the free will we think we have. Maybe you just aren't cut out for this discussion.
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no it doesn't. it doesnt seem that way at all.

Im dominating you in this discussion, revealing you as the totalitarian you are.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Examples, please. If you can't do it, that's fine.
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For hundreds of years, the Roman Republic was sustained through the practice of traditional customs of honor and conduct. Restraint, honesty, and fairness ensured that the commonwealth was governed by Rome’s “best men,” and accordingly the Republic grew to supreme eminence in the Mediterranean. With an influx of wealth and the absence of outside threats, however, these traditional values began to degrade and become irrelevant. By the 1st century B.C.E., the most prominent men in Rome were corrupted by greed, jealously, and ambition. Individuals such as Gaius Marius, Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Pompey, and Julius Caesar brought the state to chaos, disorder, and eventually tyranny in their quest for ultimate prestige and power. Historians writing on the fall of Rome focused much energy on the character of these men, exploring their qualities to explain why and how the Roman Republic collapsed. Through a description of their moral failures and political dishonesty, these historians wove the narrative of the Republic’s violent and chaotic demise. It is from the retelling of the lives of the prominent Romans at the time that the underlying causes of the Republic’s demise – greed, power, and prestige – are most readily revealed.

http://www.reallycoolblog.com/greed-power-and-prestige-explaining-the-fall-of-the-roman-republic/
 
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