People's Republic of Berkeley

[Timshel]

If you want to stop wars like this, then petition the real beasts.... the ones in DC. Get them to revoke the war powers act as Damo has suggested. THAT is how you solve the problem. Because you know the politicians aren't going to being declaring war (as they are supposed to) if they know they cannot fall back on the ole "bush tricked us" excuse. If they have to take responsibility for their actions instead of pawning it off, they will be less likely to initiate military aggression.

The problems of the war powers act does not mean that any effort for change must be aimed at it alone.

Efforts to change it have been unsuccessful and this is a better focus. Why should we beg the government to do what's right all the while enabling them by sending them fresh corpses.

This is something that can be done without having to rely on ANY politician much less a majority of them. We should discourage recruitment, abuse our children of the notion and generally engage civil disobedience.

 

[Timshel]

You think McCain would deliberately start a war so that his sons had somewhere to fight? So that they would have the potential to be POWs? Yeah, I am sure he is eager for that.

Brush your teeth. That shit that just came out of your mouth is going to leave a bad taste.

Strawman. I disagreed with your assertion that it will prevent him from starting or supporting wars. It has not so far and I see no reason to believe it will in the future.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

The problems of the war powers act does not mean that any effort for change must be aimed at it alone.

Efforts to change it have been unsuccessful and this is a better focus. Why should we beg the government to do what's right all the while enabling them by sending them fresh corpses.

This is something that can be done without having to rely on ANY politician much less a majority of them. We should discourage recruitment, abuse our children of the notion and generally engage civil disobedience.

Again, I have no problem if groups/people want to make sure those enlisting understand that by doing so they are very very very likely to be going to either Afghanistan or Iraq. No problem with that.

But trying to reduce man power because you are pissed at politicians who got us into this war is not a good solution. The military is already stretched thin. Making it thinner doesn't help those who are serving. Make them stronger, not weaker. Fuck the politicians. Not those serving.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Strawman. I disagreed with your assertion that it will prevent him from starting or supporting wars. It has not so far and I see no reason to believe it will in the future.

His sons were not in the military when Iraq began, thus, the part where you say "it has not thus far" is irrelevant. The wars he supported are the same ones many Dems did as well. Yes, many have turned on their positions in Iraq... whereas McCain favored sending more troops to aid those already there. That does not mean he is going to go willy nilly looking to start a war.... and if you eliminate the war powers act.... you eliminate his ability to "trick the Dems" into authorizing "use of force" which they will later claim was shenanigans.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Strawman. I disagreed with your assertion that it will prevent him from starting or supporting wars. It has not so far and I see no reason to believe it will in the future.

Also... how is that a strawman? It was a direct response to.....

"Originally Posted by RStringfield
So fucking what? How does that change anything. With McCain's family history he'd propabaly feel he was failing them if they were not sent to war."

 

[Timshel]

Again, I have no problem if groups/people want to make sure those enlisting understand that by doing so they are very very very likely to be going to either Afghanistan or Iraq. No problem with that.

But trying to reduce man power because you are pissed at politicians who got us into this war is not a good solution. The military is already stretched thin. Making it thinner doesn't help those who are serving. Make them stronger, not weaker. Fuck the politicians. Not those serving.

You say fuck the politicians while blaming those supporting peace rather than the politicians. They are stretched thin because of the politicians.

I hope manpower reduces dramatically. The state can not continue in this without the people enabling them.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

You say fuck the politicians while blaming those supporting peace rather than the politicians. They are stretched thin because of the politicians.

I hope manpower reduces dramatically. The state can not continue in this without the people enabling them.

They are enabled by those that continue to reelect them. They are enabled by the public not demanding that they either officially declare a state of war or not go to war. How does harassing marines support peace? Do the marines get to decide if they want to go to war or not? No.

Should the marines be able to recruit more people so that when the politicians send them to war, they are not stretched so thin? Yes.

You want a simple solution to the whole "the recruiters are lying" thing? Video. Require the meeting to be taped. One copy kept by the military, the other by the recruit that signs up.

 

[ib1yysguy]

They are enabled by those that continue to reelect them. They are enabled by the public not demanding that they either officially declare a state of war or not go to war. How does harassing marines support peace? Do the marines get to decide if they want to go to war or not? No.

Should the marines be able to recruit more people so that when the politicians send them to war, they are not stretched so thin? Yes.

You want a simple solution to the whole "the recruiters are lying" thing? Video. Require the meeting to be taped. One copy kept by the military, the other by the recruit that signs up.

Cept thats not practical since meetings happen all over the place, not some central room where they come TO the recruiters. Recruiters go door to door sometimes.

 

[Timshel]

Also... how is that a strawman? It was a direct response to.....

"Originally Posted by RStringfield
So fucking what? How does that change anything. With McCain's family history he'd propabaly feel he was failing them if they were not sent to war."

It's a strawman because I was not suggesting he would start a war just to send them off. I was making a tongue in cheek response about his rah rah military family history, because of your ridiculous comment. It's clear he see this as some sort of family duty.

I really don't care. You are full of shit on this subject, trying to make excuses. He's a war monger and a national greatness conservative plain and simple. Back to the Berkely topic.

 

[Damocles]

The problems of the war powers act does not mean that any effort for change must be aimed at it alone.

Efforts to change it have been unsuccessful and this is a better focus. Why should we beg the government to do what's right all the while enabling them by sending them fresh corpses.

This is something that can be done without having to rely on ANY politician much less a majority of them. We should discourage recruitment, abuse our children of the notion and generally engage civil disobedience.

It does mean that any effort that takes no aim at it at all will be fruitless in the end. Without that change the future will be full of exactly this.

 

[blackascoal]

Way to go Berkeley.

Still a bastion of free thought.

 

[Obfuscate]

How is free thought if you ban certain thoughts?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

It's a strawman because I was not suggesting he would start a war just to send them off. I was making a tongue in cheek response about his rah rah military family history, because of your ridiculous comment. It's clear he see this as some sort of family duty.

I really don't care. You are full of shit on this subject, trying to make excuses. He's a war monger and a national greatness conservative plain and simple. Back to the Berkely topic.

ok.... so I misinterpreted your "tounge in cheek" comment. What excuse am I making for the marines? What excuse am I making for the politicians?

Fine... back to Berkeley..... is it right to harass the groups the majority of a town oppose? What is your feeling to the idiots that protest and harass people outside of abortion clinics? Are they "helping" their cause? Or hurting it?

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

this is ignorant.

Code pink isn't being given "special permission", nor has the Marine Corps recruiting station been shut down. The faux outrage on this thread is palpable.

Protesting and counter protesting are the heart of a democracy. The City Council merely noted its approval of the code pink protest, as it does reflect the values of the elected members of the community.

The city council did NOT shut down the recruiting station, which appears to be the fantasy some are laboring under. They wrote a letter to the Corps, stating their objection to recruiting efforts to fuel a war and a military industrial complex on city property. An objection most city residents evidently agree with. Writing a letter is NOT violating someone else's freedom of speech. And as Darla noted, recruiters often lie to potential recruitee's. I find that objectionable, and I agree with the City Council's sentiments on that, reflected in their resolution. Again, I'm probably the only person on the thread who actually read the whole resolution.

The City is also exercising another one of their constitutionally protected rights. The right to see if they can enforce their Municipal Code pertaining to banning practices in their city that discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation. Which is what the Marine Corps does, IMO. That's the city's RIGHT to petition the courts. Why would someone be against a city government exercising THEIR rights??

If a conservative city council condemned a medicinal marijuana clinic, and applauded rightwing christian protesters efforts against that clinic, I would think it was nuts... but I wouldn't come on this board in a faux outrage about someone's "freedom of speech" being denied.

You should see the Mississippi abortion clinic (and, it is truly THE abortion clinic - no others).

That's how it looks 24/7, with self righteous women haters marching around. Notice the barricades to protect the innocent people inside from hate-mongers outside.

Now, I'm sure the marines can deal with a little honesty, if the abortion workers here have to get actually harrassed constantly, threatened with death, and oppressed like this, all with the approval of all the members of the mississippi legislature and all the members of the commission in Jackson.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Cept thats not practical since meetings happen all over the place, not some central room where they come TO the recruiters. Recruiters go door to door sometimes.

Make them take a camera with them. Make it a requirement. Do whatever it takes to ensure that they are not sugar coating what is happening. Make sure those enlisting understand (especially right now) that the military means that if the politicians start a war, there is a very very very good chance those IN the military are going to go to war.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

You should see the Mississippi abortion clinic (and, it is truly THE abortion clinic - no others).

That's how it looks 24/7, with self righteous women haters marching around. Notice the barricades to protect the innocent people inside from hate-mongers outside.

Now, I'm sure the marines can deal with a little honesty, if the abortion workers here have to get actually harrassed constantly, threatened with death, and oppressed like this, all with the approval of all the members of the mississippi legislature and all the members of the commission in Jackson.

Two wrongs do not make a right water. This is my point. It is just as wrong for those idiots to be harassing women/workers going into the clinics. It HURTS the pro-life position. It does not help it.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Make them take a camera with them. Make it a requirement. Do whatever it takes to ensure that they are not sugar coating what is happening. Make sure those enlisting understand (especially right now) that the military means that if the politicians start a war, there is a very very very good chance those IN the military are going to go to war.

Military recruiter: What's up, bro?
WM: I don't want to go to Iraq.
Military recruiter: Oh no! There are plenty of options, bro! *that's the lie*
WM: Listen, I'm not interested in joining the marines.

Military recruiter: *stalls for a minute*

WM: Listen, I'm not interested.
Military recruiter: alright, would you like me to call back at another time?

WM: *hangs up*






I've had this conversation more than 20 times since I left high school. They're like bloodhounds. I'm not stupid enough to believe their lies, but others are.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Two wrongs do not make a right water. This is my point. It is just as wrong for those idiots to be harassing women/workers going into the clinics. It HURTS the pro-life position. It does not help it.

The only thing I disagreed with in the text was the special permit to protest outside of the marines office 24/7. I know that from experience that it's not right. But there's nothing wrong with the rest.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

The only thing I disagreed with in the text was the special permit to protest outside of the marines office 24/7. I know that from experience that it's not right. But there's nothing wrong with the rest.

and as I stated water, I do not have a problem with the fact that code pink is trying to make sure the recruits aren't being "tricked". I have a problem with their receiving special treatment and I have a problem if they are harassing those that work at the recruiting center or anyone going into the center. I am not saying they are, but from the article it would appear that some of the other business owners around think it is borderline. I think the letter saying they are not welcome in the neighborhood is pathetic.

 

[blackascoal]

How is free thought if you ban certain thoughts?

It's being free to decide what the university stands for, independent of the need to fall in line and bow to "patriotic" criticism. All institutions of education ban certain thoughts .. but this isn't banning thought, it's banning recruiting.