Questions for the religious

PostmodernProphet said:
YHWH was the Jewish way of expressing "I am" so that they could avoid using the words themselves, as they believed it was a breach of the commandment "Do not not take the name of the Lord in vain" to even use the words I am......


when the oral traditions that we know as Genesis was finally set down as a written text, stories from various sources were combined in a chronological order......some of those sources used the post-Moses form of the name of God, some used the pre-Moses form of El which simply means God....
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The third son of Adam was not born after Moses. It's absurd.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
apparently your Christian experience was with a Pentacostal style church......it is sad that extremism turned you away from God.........
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While the speaking in tongues may have not been in my experience, I'm reasonably sure that I would run into almost all of that mess in any Christian church out there, unless there is one that teaches that faith is meaningless and that when Christ told the "faith of the mustard seed" story he was just writing fiction...
 
guno said:
Interesting

The very words of the ten commandments clearly tells us that the commandments were for the Jewish people ONLY

The hebrew god never brought the goyim or their ancestors out of Egypt! Ex 20:2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery."
The hebrew god has not given the gtoyim the promised land of Canaan! Ex 20:12 "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the Lord your God gives you"
Since the Sabbath is a sign between hebrews god and fleshly Israel, there is nothing requiring goyim to keep it! (Ex. 31:13,17; Ezek. 20:12, 20)
If it was intended for all mankind, then why specifically say "strangers within your gates". Obviously the goyim (strangers) were never required at any point in earth history to keep the Sabbath or commandements!

And why are the goyims version of the ten commandment not like the hebrew ten commandments?


http://www.beliefnet.com/faiths/2007/03/chart-comparing-the-ten-commandments.aspx
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As I understand it, the Church was the 'New Israel', and had replaced the old.
 
Damocles said:
While the speaking in tongues may have not been in my experience, I'm reasonably sure that I would run into almost all of that mess in any Christian church out there, unless there is one that teaches that faith is meaningless and that when Christ told the "faith of the mustard seed" story he was just writing fiction...
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really?.....because I expect less than 10% of Christian churches have any experience with speaking in tongues and the rest would not think it has anything to do with faith...... I've never even been in a church that thought someone was going to speak in tongues......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
really?.....because I expect less than 10% of Christian churches have any experience with speaking in tongues and the rest would not think it has anything to do with faith...... I've never even been in a church that thought someone was going to speak in tongues......
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Yet everything else I listed doesn't strike you as problematic at all, eh? Speaking in tongues was not what led me to question things, it was just one aspect of a whole tapestry.

I said, had I gone to churches where speaking in tongues was not present I would still run into all the rest.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
really?.....because I expect less than 10% of Christian churches have any experience with speaking in tongues and the rest would not think it has anything to do with faith...... I've never even been in a church that thought someone was going to speak in tongues......
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Speak in Tongues in 5-Days or Your Money Back!



Our Pastors are very excited about a new Hooked on Phonics DVD being made available exclusively through the Landover Baptist Church. "For the last few years, we've been assisting the folks at Hooked on Phonics in coming up with a quality product," says Landover Pastor, Deacon Fred. "I'm confident that we've created something that will have you babbling in so many tongues you'll damn Pentecostals to Hell with their corrosive envy."

The DVD allows beginners to start out the easy, backwoods Pentecostal way -- by copying what the person in the next pew is yapping. Within a day, you will learn to make up things that even you can't understand while in a hot-footed hillbilly trance. You'll get a hundred page handy translation guide along with the DVD:

TONGUES: shun-doo-lah!

ENGLISH: "Look at me!

TONGUES: shun-doo-lah, mah-shundah!

ENGLISH: "Look at me! Look'it what I can do!"

DVD extras include: Basic Snake-Handling, Pew-Jumping Safety, Beginner's Chandelier Swinging, and the popular short instructional film, Slayed in the Spirit: Failsafe Protocals - When You're in the Wrong Church and the Congregation Goes for the Gun Rack, It's Time to Play Dead.

Not included in this offer: Singing in Tongues and Healing Below the Belt.

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news1204/tongues.html
 
guno said:
Speak in Tongues in 5-Days or Your Money Back!



Our Pastors are very excited about a new Hooked on Phonics DVD being made available exclusively through the Landover Baptist Church. "For the last few years, we've been assisting the folks at Hooked on Phonics in coming up with a quality product," says Landover Pastor, Deacon Fred. "I'm confident that we've created something that will have you babbling in so many tongues you'll damn Pentecostals to Hell with their corrosive envy."

The DVD allows beginners to start out the easy, backwoods Pentecostal way -- by copying what the person in the next pew is yapping. Within a day, you will learn to make up things that even you can't understand while in a hot-footed hillbilly trance. You'll get a hundred page handy translation guide along with the DVD:

TONGUES: shun-doo-lah!

ENGLISH: "Look at me!

TONGUES: shun-doo-lah, mah-shundah!

ENGLISH: "Look at me! Look'it what I can do!"

DVD extras include: Basic Snake-Handling, Pew-Jumping Safety, Beginner's Chandelier Swinging, and the popular short instructional film, Slayed in the Spirit: Failsafe Protocals - When You're in the Wrong Church and the Congregation Goes for the Gun Rack, It's Time to Play Dead.

Not included in this offer: Singing in Tongues and Healing Below the Belt.

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news1204/tongues.html
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What kind of mental illness would you have to have to give this asshole your money?
He earned 80 million a year with this act, preying on deranged Christians.
Tilton is only one of many.
 
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Damocles said:
Nah, for me it was the evidence of my eyes. In the Bible when the Spirit came upon Jesus' followers they were able to Speak in Tongues, which allowed them to say something and EVERYONE understood in their own language, but nowadays speaking in tongues is babble-speak only understood by somebody else touched by God who seems to continue to speak as if he was from the 16th century. I remember being frustrated by a being who supposedly knew everything speaking, "Yea I say unto you that if you speak with Me I will tell thee..." So forth. I also was always amazed that either the person speaking in tongues spoke for 10 minutes for a 30 second translation, or the translation was like 20 minutes of ancient English for 42 seconds of tongues-speak where they said "Ashumdelalah" 16 times.

Then the "three in one" frustration was a big player in my huge doubt that began nearly when I first heard it. This played into the Sacrifice story that was also frustrating to me. God, who knows everything and is everywhere sends himself to "die" on the cross knowing that he would rise again in "3 days" that were counted as a full day if any part of it happened in any day... Also this God would know that an eternal spirit can't be killed. Then this God holds a conversation with himself and forsakes himself? I was nonplussed. It just doesn't seem like a sacrifice or even a game if you already know you are going to win. It's like playing chess with a 3 year old who doesn't yet know how the pieces move, how is that a challenge?

I was told that if you even had the "faith" of a mustard seed you could do anything Christ did, like walk on water, heal the sick, etc. Shoot Christ said you could move mountains, I have seen none moved. I've met nobody, and I really do mean nobody at all, that could do any of it. Apparently nobody at all has any faith, not even as much as that tiny mustard seed... Thousands of people pouring forward at our church for healing prayer and their record was O for Thousands of hopefuls... nobody ever was healed... Well, some of them were eventually healed by modern medicine and simply their bodies healing. Nary a blind person could ever see, wheelchairs were still necessary for those who needed them before, nada...

The story of Jonah... That was nothing but a story to me, but if Miracles could happen, then m'eh... that's a pretty normal sounding "miracle"...

Then there were stories of God's seeming uncaring attitude. When kids come out to mock one of his prophets for his baldness and he gets frustrated and curses them, a bear comes and kills all those kids? Really? I thought it said God is love, how is that love?

I can go on and on. So many of these discrepancies between what I saw and what I read/heard led me to just flat tell the people at the church and my mother that i simply didn't believe sometime around 9 years old. Which was a mistake, but that's a whole different story for a different time.
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You were too sane to be a Christian, Damo.
Good for you.
 
Damocles said:
Heinlein is one of my favorite authors, I have read every one of his books, several of them multiple times. This is one of those that I've read more than once. Also Stranger in a Strange Land, The Number of the Beast, and Farnham's Freehold (there are others but he was a prolific writer).
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May you never thirst, Brother.
 
Damocles said:
Yet everything else I listed doesn't strike you as problematic at all, eh? Speaking in tongues was not what led me to question things, it was just one aspect of a whole tapestry.

I said, had I gone to churches where speaking in tongues was not present I would still run into all the rest.
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thinking humans can do the things God did if they had faith?.......no, you would not run into that in 90+% of Christian churches?....

this?....
Then the "three in one" frustration was a big player in my huge doubt that began nearly when I first heard it. This played into the Sacrifice story that was also frustrating to me. God, who knows everything and is everywhere sends himself to "die" on the cross knowing that he would rise again in "3 days" that were counted as a full day if any part of it happened in any day... Also this God would know that an eternal spirit can't be killed. Then this God holds a conversation with himself and forsakes himself? I was nonplussed. It just doesn't seem like a sacrifice or even a game if you already know you are going to win. It's like playing chess with a 3 year old who doesn't yet know how the pieces move, how is that a challenge?
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yeah, you're going to find that.......but to me it isn't a fake sacrifice just because he had knowledge he would be victorious over death.......it was a sacrifice because a God was willing to suffer the restriction of being merely human, was willing to have himself nailed to a block of wood.....just because he wanted me to love him without hesitation.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
thinking humans can do the things God did if they had faith?.......no, you would not run into that in 90+% of Christian churches?....
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So you think that when God Himself said (Matt. 17:20): He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.” [21] [a]

He was just faking you out then?

yeah, you're going to find that.......but to me it isn't a fake sacrifice just because he had knowledge he would be victorious over death.......it was a sacrifice because a God was willing to suffer the restriction of being merely human, was willing to have himself nailed to a block of wood.....just because he wanted me to love him without hesitation.....
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Right, so limited... You informed me that mankind cannot do what "God" did earlier and think that nobody in any church but the one I grew up in would believe Christ when he said things, then tell me that he was "limited" to being human. You cannot have it both ways. Either God came to earth to tell you stories that weren't true and be human, or he was God the whole time, knew it, and told you the Truth but you don't have the faith of even a mustard seed. By this measure nobody at all really believes.

Anyway, I questioned stuff even before then, it was only 9 or 10 when I got the courage to tell people. These are just the largest examples.
 
Damocles said:
So you think that when God Himself said (Matt. 17:20): He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.” [21] [a]

He was just faking you out then?
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nope, I'm just thinking he didn't expect people to be stupid enough to play with poisonous snakes or pick up mountains and move them to the next country........or expect to speak in mysterious languages........the "tongues" spoken on Pentacost by the apostles were the native languages of the foreigners in the audience.......not manic babblings.....

Right, so limited... You informed me that mankind cannot do what "God" did earlier and think that nobody in any church but the one I grew up in would believe Christ when he said things, then tell me that he was "limited" to being human. You cannot have it both ways.
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to be honest, I can't even see that the two claims are even in the same ball park let along a parallel......no......mankind cannot do what God can............yes, Jesus was limited by his incarnation........that does not mean that you and I can command God to heal people or make him let us walk on water.......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
nope, I'm just thinking he didn't expect people to be stupid enough to play with poisonous snakes or pick up mountains and move them to the next country........or expect to speak in mysterious languages........the "tongues" spoken on Pentacost by the apostles were the native languages of the foreigners in the audience.......not manic babblings.....


to be honest, I can't even see that the two claims are even in the same ball park let along a parallel......no......mankind cannot do what God can............yes, Jesus was limited by his incarnation........that does not mean that you and I can command God to heal people or make him let us walk on water.......
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So matthew 17:20 is a lie?
 

Combine hillbilly ignorance , induced insanity and Christian faith and this what you get.
If a little insanity is required to be a Christian a lot of insanity must be more Christian, right?
 
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