Scientism

ZenMode said:
Second, the unique stream of consciousness, that we associate with an imagine is the "I", is not consciously under our control. Our thoughts just arise in consciousness. We cannot stop them and we do not know what they are going to be until they enter our consciousness.
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The mind is able to focus on specific things all the time. This is attention. We decide what to pay attention to. Otherwise we would be paralyzed and unable to accomplish anything.
 
ZenMode said:
That feeling, the feeling of a separate self, is what creates the illusion of free will. We imagine that there is a some kind of self that is "running" things. In reality, there is no self that "does" anything. There's no self that is experiencing experiences or feeling feelings or thinking/creating thoghts. There is only our unique stream of consciousness and we/I/self are that a stream, not sitting outside of it.
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To be clear. I never argued for a "feeling of a separate self." That is not my position.
 
ZenMode said:
What is the "I" that is authoring thoughts? Making decisions? Feeling feelings?
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Not sure what the question means. I choose to have a stout beer. When I drink it, it means my desire for stout beer has been realized.

It is hot outside, I feel hot. End of analysis.
 
ZenMode said:
What is the "I" that is authoring thoughts? Making decisions? Feeling feelings?
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This is from a book a recently published article cited:
" Our mind is not an unorganized heap of mental states but has a structure more like a stack: on top of an agent’s present priority stack are some mental elements and processes, while other elements are pushed down on the stack."

The ability to focus the mind and complete a task demonstrates the structure of attention.
 
BidenPresident said:
Not sure what the question means. I choose to have a stout beer. When I drink it, it means my desire for stout beer has been realized.

It is hot outside, I feel hot. End of analysis.
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What is the I that is thinking and then deciding to have a stout beer? What is the I that is creating the contemplative thoughts on whether to have an IPA, stout, ale, etc?
 
BidenPresident said:
This is from a book a recently published article cited:
" Our mind is not an unorganized heap of mental states but has a structure more like a stack: on top of an agent’s present priority stack are some mental elements and processes, while other elements are pushed down on the stack."

The ability to focus the mind and complete a task demonstrates the structure of attention.
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If there is an "I" that is instructing the mind to focus attention, what is that I?
 
BidenPresident said:
You seem to be saying the mind is a buzz of random thoughts and can never focus on anything.
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Not at all. It's true that, if you really pay attention, you'll find that thoughts are constantly happening. We are constantly talking to ourselves. Even when you're focusing on something, you'll often find that you're having to fight off other thoughts. Even while you're reading my posts, you've probably been distracted more than one by thoughts popping into consciousness.
 
ZenMode said:
Not at all. It's true that, if you really pay attention, you'll find that thoughts are constantly happening. We are constantly talking to ourselves. Even when you're focusing on something, you'll often find that you're having to fight off other thoughts. Even while you're reading my posts, you've probably been distracted more than one by thoughts popping into consciousness.
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No, I actually have very good concentration. It is a skill that is learned and practiced.
 
Cypress said:
Again you speak to thoughts when will by definition is deliberate and purposeful action.

I don't think I choose my wife, I choose the careers I have had, the experiences I have consciously sought out.
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You don't choose who you are attracted to, but you do choose what you do about it. Example: being attracted to the boss's wife is one thing, trying to seduce her is a conscious action. People like Mode who can't control their impulses would try to do it anyway.
 
ZenMode said:
That's good. Good concentration, like everything else about us, is completely outside your control, but it's a good skill to have!
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There is that "outside of your control" thing again. I must admit I really have no idea what you are referring to. If I can focus on a task then it is in my control. By definition.
 
ZenMode said:
There is a clear connection between thoughts and deliberate actions. Any deliberate action requires you to have a thought to cause that action. In my example above, about getting a drink, the decision for action/inaction is all determined by thoughts that you didn't consciously create, but only appeared in your consciousness. The thought "I'm thirsty" wasn't consciously created by you.

"You" didn't consciously choose your career or your experiences you've sought out. You consciously experience thoughts related to your career and experiences, but those thoughts are created by your brain, completely outside of your control, based on the totality of your life experiences.
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No shit, Mode. It's the same person having them.

The difference is that sane people can control their impulses, choose what to do with their thoughts. Mentally ill people have limited self-control as you believe.

This is why I believe you have mental issues; you lack self-control and are seeking to justify your actions due to your inability to control yourself.
 
BidenPresident said:
There is that "outside of your control" thing again. I must admit I really have no idea what you are referring to. If I can focus on a task then it is in my control. By definition.
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Right. Everything about us is ultimately outside of our control because it comes from either genes, which we obviously have no control over, or external influences that shape our brain and determine our thougths/actions, which we also have no control over.
 
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