Some basic facts on Gaza

Is that what I am? Am I on the left?
You're sure acting like it at the moment.
The left engages in special pleading fallacies all the time as well as two-tier justice systems,
They also make things up, try to blame someone else, try to change history, and try to condemn based on that altered 'history'. It is what YOU are doing right now.
and here you are excusing war crimes that are otherwise punishable by hanging everywhere in the world, just because Israel is the perpetrator.
Stop chanting. Answer the question put to you.
Yup. You're sure acting like one. Why is beyond me.
You refer to the wholesale slaughter of thousands of civilian Arab Semite noncombatants (who never attacked Israel) via internationally recognized war crimes (air strikes into civilian targets) as "Israel's duty ... to defend itself"?
You've gotta stop getting your 'news' from Hamas. That is almost word for word what Hamas is publishing.
You HATE Arabs.
Hallucination. He never made any such statement. Word stuffing.
You can't wait to blame the subhuman Arab Semites for the Ayatollah's malfeasance because you just want the world rid of the vermin.
Hallucation. Omniscience fallacy.
You give yourself away every time you express or imply that innocent noncombatants somehow deserve whatever they get, including the children. You're a shitty person.
How do you know they are 'noncombatants'? Hamas combatants commonly appear as civilians. Even the children in Gaza are raised to hate Israel.
 
You don't get it. This is a war. It is occurring in one of the most densely populated cities on the planet. There are going to be civilian casualties, lots of them. That doesn't mean Israel is committing "genocide." If Israel were, when they took that hospital the other day they'd have shot all the patients and hospital staff. But they didn't. They allowed them to continue treating patients even if the conditions were poor. It isn't the IDF's fault that they have higher priorities in a war than caring for civilian patients in a hospital.

If you happen to live in a high rise apartment building that also houses Hamas stuff and maybe some troops, then expect to see your apartment blown up with the rest of the building. That's not the IDF's fault, you chose poorly. Being in a building with Hamas makes it a military target and your apartment collateral damage. That's how wars work.

The Israel military aren't a police force. They aren't there to arrest bad guys and protect the innocent. They are in Gaza to kill their enemy, Hamas and other terrorist groups, destroy those group's stuff, and make damn sure they can't fight Israel in the future. Civilian casualties are inevitable given how densely Gaza is populated.

Indeed, once ground forces reached that hospital, they assisted in restoring medical services. The rocket launchers stored in that hospital are, of course, destroyed now.
 
They are.
Nope. They did not attack Israel. The IDF is slaughtering innocent civilians while you applaud and while you excuse heinous war crimes. You specifically turn a blind eye to atrocities just because Israel is the perpetrator. Your team is committing genocide and you rebuff calls to even look into it. You chanting of "there is no genocide" grows more and more absurd as the bodies continue to pile up ... or continue to become buried under rubble.

You are on wrong side of the issue out of OBEDIENCE to someone.

Hamas chose to start a war with Israel.
The Ayatollah didn't do anything that he hadn't done many, many times before, as well as his predecessor before him. Israel's HATRED for the Arab Semites apparently bubbled over and apparently resonates with a certain receptive audience. Now, the IDF brings on the Nakba while Team Israel goes into full denial.

Denial dismissed.

They are all human beings.
You don't get to claim that they are all human beings while you express relief at the IDF exterminating them all like they are the Orkin man. Your claim that they are all human is dismissed; you clearly do not believe it.

I never made any such implication.
You made the implication dozens of time accompanied by lame pivots and denials. You have the 1st Amendment right to HATE all the Arab Semites you wish. It's not a crime.

I am not pleading for Israel or for war.
You absolutely are, with glee. You REFUSE to acknowledge any of the internationally recognized war crimes perpetrated by the IDF in deference to chanting "there is no genocide." You have the 1st Amendment right to demonize Arab Semite children who never attacked Israel; it is not a crime. You have a 1st Amendment right to deny that the Ayatollah is responsible for the attack on Israel if it helps you justify, in your mind, your demonization of Arab Semite children, because it helps you justify in your own mind the perpetration of heinous war crimes by the IDF. All you need now is to ensure that none of it is ever investigated, i.e. that it is all swept under the rug, otherwise your whole chain of absurd denial snaps and you would have absolutely no way to explain your position beyond your 1st Amendment rights.

I CAN understand, however, the Israelis have against Hamas.
Nope. You understand the seething Israeli bigotry towards Arab Semites to the extent that you willfully excuse the slaughter of Arab Semite children. Hey, they're all Hamas, right? You reveal your bigotry in your refusal to separate Al Qassam militants from civilian Arab Semite noncombatants who never attacked Israel. Every time the topic arises of IDF atrocities against innocent civilians, you respond with something along the lines of "Israel has every right to obliterate Hamas." You equate the two. That is unconscionable. That is shitty. You do it in virtually every post.

Hamas is in Gaza.
What you mean to write is that innocent civilian Arab Semite noncombatants, who never attacked Israel, are in Gaza. Correct.

Iran did not invade.
Iran most certainly invaded. The Al Qassam militants were acting as Iranian soldiers at the Ayatollah's behest. Iran absolutely invaded. It was Iran's attack.

Israel is not committing genocide.
Chanting dismissed. Israel is obviously committing genocide. They are willfully bringing on the 2nd Nakba. They HATE the Arab Semites they are eradicating. Fortunately, various groups are documenting the Israeli war crimes and hopefully investigations will follow.

Hamas wants to though.
Nope. Hamas is in it for the money. It's the Ayatollah who wants Israel destroyed and who insists that the Hamas charter include the Ayatollah's clause of wanting to eliminate all Jews. Iran is, and has been, responsible for all the attacks on Israel over the last thirty years and Israel is aware of this. Israel simply HATES Arabs and is using this as an excuse to bring on the 2nd Nakba.

There is no genocide.
Chanting dismissed. Israel is bringing on the 2nd Nakba.

Israel is not Germany. There are no Nazis.
Israel is Israel. Israelis are the neo-neo-Nazis bringing on the 2nd Nakba.

Hey, watch
... it is hilarious. I guarantee that you will laugh your ass off. Israelis sure know how to mock Palestinians in their misery.

Since Israel is currently embracing capitalism, when do you thing that will happen?
Great observation. Israel has learned many valuable lessons from China. Are you aware of what China is doing to the Uyghurs? It's a reasonable parallel to the Israeli persecution of the Arab Semites. Maybe the Israeli neo-neo-Nazis have a tinge of Maoist influence. Anyway, great point.

Answer the question put to you. Don't evade.
Nope. This EVASION on your part earns you a "Fuck you!" I asked you first. I demand accountability and I asked you to join me in calling for fair investigations, and for fair trials where they are warranted. You have simply EVADED. I'll gladly answer your stupid pivot question after you answer the question put to you. Right now, it appears that your EVASION is aimed solely at excusing all of Israel's war crimes and striving to ensure nothing whatsoever is investigated ... however, I'd like you to be the one to state that for the record, or to state that you join me in calling for fair and thorough investigations of everything, and for trials where warranted by those fair investigations.

Actually, I'll address your pivot question. I don't know who would be doing the investigations because I'm not the one who will decide that. I'll support you being on the panel that decides who conducts the investigations and who tries the cases. I just want the investigations and any warranted trials. I want accountability. I want the current genocide perpetrated by Israel to be forthwith answered. If fair and thorough investigations reveal that everything the IDF did was kosher then I'll be elated to have been wrong and I will post on JPP to that effect ... but I want those investigations. I ignore those who who fight tooth and nail for everything to be preemptively excused, just because it's Israel we're talking about. I will also continue to point out the shittiness of those bigots who equate the murdered noncombatant children with Al Qassam militants. Israel has an obligation to wage war legally.
 
What civilian targets? It's a war zone.
Irrelevant. Israel has an obligation to conduct war legally. War zones don't excuse illegal warfare.

Hamas was using that structure to house weapons and supplies.
Irrelevant. The IDF can first remove the civilian noncombatants. The IDF can enter and confiscate the weapons and supplies. If the IDF has Hamas trapped then the IDF is fully trained in tactics for just such a situation.

I also don't believe you. I think the IDF simply pumped a missile into the structure, possibly on a rumor that Hamas might be in there, and thereafter allowed Public Affairs to fabricate any "justification" they liked after the fact. In any event, it should be investigated. The questions need to be asked as to why the IDF didn't simply clear the building and collect the weapons and supplies. It needs to be investigated as to whether there even were any weapons or supplies and that the structure even was a valid, legal target in the first place. It should definitely be investigated. If the IDF simply made a mistake, then that should come out as well.

They are...finally. Ground forces have reached the hospital and are restoring medical services.
That's not what I'm reading. My information holds that the hospitals are "out of service" owing to the combined intentional destruction of hospitals by the IDF and the IDF's blockade. Yes, the IDF has stormed the largest hospital and yes, there are calls for the IDF to fix what they have broken, and to restore that hospital, but I don't think the IDF is going to do that. We'll see. The rest of the hospitals apparently have had to suspend operations.

The hospital was first hit by Hamas rockets. They ARE unguided, after all. The hospital was being used by Hamas to house weapons and supplies.
Are you saying that Hamas fired its rockets from the hospital into the same hospital? I'm not buying this narrative on face value. Also, my understanding is that it was the IDF's attack that disabled the hospital, whereas previously it was operating at full capacity, despite any superficial damage it might incurred beforehand.
 
You don't get it. This is a war.
You don't get it. Israel has an obligation to wage war legally.

It is occurring in one of the most densely populated cities on the planet.
So, we agree that Israel must take special precautions, yes? We agree that Israel can't be recklessly pumping missiles into structures that they know are full of civilian noncombatants, right? We agree that the IDF doesn't get to capriciously kill whomever they wish, right? ... or do you disagree with anything I have stated thus far?

There are going to be civilian casualties, lots of them.
Nope. All illegal warfare and all atrocities should be investigated and forthwith answered.

That doesn't mean Israel is committing "genocide."
Correct. It's the genocide that Israel is perpetrating that means Israel is committing genocide. I hope that logic is sufficiently clear for you.

If Israel were, when they took that hospital the other day they'd have shot all the patients and hospital staff.
False.

They allowed them to continue treating patients
The hospitals have suspended operations. The IDF has made it come to that. Maybe the IDF just enjoys watching Arabs suffer.

It isn't the IDF's fault that they have higher priorities [than engaging in legal warfare]
Yes. It is entirely their fault. They should be investigated and tried where appropriate.

If you happen to live in a high rise apartment building that also houses Hamas stuff and maybe some troops, then expect to see your apartment blown up with the rest of the building.
Nope. I expect to be evacuated before being put in any danger. The feuds of other parties do not justify either of those parties harming me in any way ... and no, you don't get to claim that I somehow deserve whatever I get because of how I might have voted in the past.

Your position that Israel somehow has a right to kill whomever they please (or whomever they HATE) just because they are pointing to their feud with a militant organization is unconscionable.

That's not the IDF's fault, you chose poorly.
If the IDF were to ever blow up my home then it would be entirely their fault and any of my family who remain alive would see each and every one of them hang. The fact that you believe that Israel's recklessness is somehow my fault because [insert your special pleading fallacy here] reveals you as a fucking shitty person. You excuse the most heinous of war crimes just because Israel is the perpetrator. Fuck you.

Being in a building with Hamas makes it a military target
Nope. My being in it takes it off the military target list, you dumbass. The IDF needs to evacuate me first if they want to destroy my home, and then they had better compensate me for my loss.

That's how wars work.
You are not military and you have never deployed to a war zone. Ask me how I know.

The Israel military aren't a police force.
They are stormtroopers.

They aren't there to arrest bad guys and protect the innocent.
... yet they have the obligation to do so.

They are in Gaza to kill their enemy,
... who happen to be lawful noncombatants who they HATE. Israel is looking to bring on the 2nd Nakba just because they, like you, equate all Arabs with Al Qassam militants.

... and make damn sure they can't fight Israel in the future.
Right. When you equate a class of people with Al Qassam militants, your tactic transitions to killing the children so they can't attack you in the future.

Civilian casualties are inevitable ...
... when there is no intention of engaging in lawful warfare.
 
Is that what I am? Am I on the left? The left engages in special pleading fallacies all the time as well as two-tier justice systems, and here you are excusing war crimes that are otherwise punishable by hanging everywhere in the world, just because Israel is the perpetrator. Leftist. You refer to the wholesale slaughter of thousands of civilian Arab Semite noncombatants (who never attacked Israel) via internationally recognized war crimes (air strikes into civilian targets) as "Israel's duty ... to defend itself"? You HATE Arabs. You can't wait to blame the subhuman Arab Semites for the Ayatollah's malfeasance because you just want the world rid of the vermin. You give yourself away every time you express or imply that innocent noncombatants somehow deserve whatever they get, including the children. You're a shitty person.

Who was I responding to and where did I mention you? Copy and paste your work
 
You don't get it. Israel has an obligation to wage war legally.

Attacking a military target is legal. Collateral damage is allowed but a combatant should try to minimize it. Try. That doesn't mean "Do none."

So, we agree that Israel must take special precautions, yes?

No, that means Israel needs to take ordinary precautions. If the IDF is taking fire from a particular building, they can blow the hell out of it. If there happen to be civilians in the building too, too bad for them.

We agree that Israel can't be recklessly pumping missiles into structures that they know are full of civilian noncombatants, right?

"Reconnaissance by fire?" They shouldn't be doing that--that is firing randomly into buildings and such to see if they get a reaction. Returning fire on a spotted enemy target or enemy engaged in firing on them? By all means. And they can use overwhelming firepower (within reason) to do so. That is, some Hamas combatant is firing a rifle or machinegun at them, they can blow the position away with a missile, tank cannon fire, etc.
If there are civilians nearby, too bad for them.

We agree that the IDF doesn't get to capriciously kill whomever they wish, right?

I agree that the IDF just can't randomly shoot up buildings. They can blow the fuck out of one they figure out is a military target though. They don't have to limit their fire to just some tiny spot on the building for example. They don't have to avoid shooting up mosques or hospitals if they're taking fire from them or have identified active combatants within them. Collateral damage is allowed but should be minimized.

... or do you disagree with anything I have stated thus far?

I've given my positions.


Nope. All illegal warfare and all atrocities should be investigated and forthwith answered.

The only true war crime is losing. War is an atrocity.

Correct. It's the genocide that Israel is perpetrating that means Israel is committing genocide. I hope that logic is sufficiently clear for you.

Wrong! Genocide is the practice of systematically and completely eliminating a racial group deliberately. Israel is not doing that, so they aren't committing "genocide." You are using the word wrong and in a hyperbolic fashion.

False.
The hospitals have suspended operations. The IDF has made it come to that. Maybe the IDF just enjoys watching Arabs suffer.

Wrong, they continue operating but with reductions in what they can do given the war going on.

Yes. It is entirely their fault. They should be investigated and tried where appropriate.

You think armies and militaries are police don't you? You see no difference between the two.

Nope. I expect to be evacuated before being put in any danger. The feuds of other parties do not justify either of those parties harming me in any way ... and no, you don't get to claim that I somehow deserve whatever I get because of how I might have voted in the past.

More proof you think militaries should act like police.

Your position that Israel somehow has a right to kill whomever they please (or whomever they HATE) just because they are pointing to their feud with a militant organization is unconscionable.

I never said they have a right to indiscriminately kill whoever they please, but have stated that causing collateral damage in a war is allowed. Civilians caught in a battle can be killed but shouldn't be killed on purpose.

If the IDF were to ever blow up my home then it would be entirely their fault and any of my family who remain alive would see each and every one of them hang. The fact that you believe that Israel's recklessness is somehow my fault because [insert your special pleading fallacy here] reveals you as a fucking shitty person. You excuse the most heinous of war crimes just because Israel is the perpetrator. Fuck you
.

So, now we're getting to the heart of your position. You are antisemitic or very much taking sides in this conflict. You simply don't like that Israel is far, far, more militarily competent than Hamas and see that as "unfair" or something.

Nope. My being in it takes it off the military target list, you dumbass. The IDF needs to evacuate me first if they want to destroy my home, and then they had better compensate me for my loss.

Back to you seeing the military as police. Well, the military doesn't have to let you evacuate the way police would. The military doesn't have to negotiate for shit. They can blow up and kill enemy combatants and if they cause some collateral damage in the process, that's allowed.

You are not military and you have never deployed to a war zone. Ask me how I know.

How do you know?

They are stormtroopers.

And, back to the hating on one side because you favor the other...

... yet they have the obligation to do so.

Wrong! Militaries are NOT police. They have no obligation to arrest anyone or protect the innocent. Militaries are there to win the war they are engaged in.

... who happen to be lawful noncombatants who they HATE. Israel is looking to bring on the 2nd Nakba just because they, like you, equate all Arabs with Al Qassam militants

No, Arabs just happen to be totally incompetent militarily. Against anyone else, they get their asses handed to them in a war. Gaza is a densely populated urban area. Israel gave civilians and other noncombatants clear waring and time to leave. If they didn't, then that's on them.

Right. When you equate a class of people with Al Qassam militants, your tactic transitions to killing the children so they can't attack you in the future.

Again you twist what I said. If every person in Hamas is dead as a result of this war, Hamas ceases to exist. Others may try to resurrect it in the future but that will be a long time coming. That's clearly Israel's aim here.

... when there is no intention of engaging in lawful warfare.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/book...ry-necessity/E988D7E5D297E9A008BD391DD881429F

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1929029

Colleterial damage is allowed in warfare. Militaries are NOT police. Civilian casualties should be minimized, but there is no requirement they be entirely avoided. You can't grasp any of that seemingly.
 
Nope. They did not attack Israel.
Hamas attacked Israel and started the war. Why are you trying to change history?
The IDF is slaughtering innocent civilians while you applaud and while you excuse heinous war crimes.
You specifically turn a blind eye to atrocities just because Israel is the perpetrator.
No, that is YOU turning a blind eye. You are trying to change history (I guess you support Hamas for some reason). Stop chanting and answer the question put to you.
Your team is committing genocide and you rebuff calls to even look into it.
There is no genocide.
You chanting of "there is no genocide" grows more and more absurd as the bodies continue to pile up ... or continue to become buried under rubble.
There is no genocide.
You are on wrong side of the issue out of OBEDIENCE to someone.
I answer to no one. For some reason, you are believing the propaganda coming out of Hamas.
The Ayatollah didn't do anything that he hadn't done many, many times before, as well as his predecessor before him. Israel's HATRED for the Arab Semites apparently bubbled over and apparently resonates with a certain receptive audience. Now, the IDF brings on the Nakba while Team Israel goes into full denial.

Denial dismissed.
Iran didn't invade Israel.
You don't get to claim that they are all human beings while you express relief at the IDF exterminating them all like they are the Orkin man. Your claim that they are all human is dismissed; you clearly do not believe it.
You clearly don't get it.
You made the implication dozens of time accompanied by lame pivots and denials. You have the 1st Amendment right to HATE all the Arab Semites you wish. It's not a crime.
I am not pivoting. Fallacy fallacy. Answer the question put to you.
You absolutely are, with glee. You REFUSE to acknowledge any of the internationally recognized war crimes perpetrated by the IDF in deference to chanting "there is no genocide."
There is no genocide. You are hallucinating that there is some kind of 'genocide'. Answer the question put to you. Stop evading and chanting.
You have the 1st Amendment right to demonize Arab Semite children who never attacked Israel; it is not a crime. You have a 1st Amendment right to deny that the Ayatollah is responsible for the attack on Israel if it helps you justify, in your mind, your demonization of Arab Semite children, because it helps you justify in your own mind the perpetration of heinous war crimes by the IDF. All you need now is to ensure that none of it is ever investigated, i.e. that it is all swept under the rug, otherwise your whole chain of absurd denial snaps and you would have absolutely no way to explain your position beyond your 1st Amendment rights.
Answer the question put to you.
Nope. You understand the seething Israeli bigotry towards Arab Semites to the extent that you willfully excuse the slaughter of Arab Semite children. Hey, they're all Hamas, right? You reveal your bigotry in your refusal to separate Al Qassam militants from civilian Arab Semite noncombatants who never attacked Israel. Every time the topic arises of IDF atrocities against innocent civilians, you respond with something along the lines of "Israel has every right to obliterate Hamas." You equate the two. That is unconscionable. That is shitty. You do it in virtually every post.
Answer the question put to you.
What you mean to write is that innocent civilian Arab Semite noncombatants, who never attacked Israel, are in Gaza. Correct.
Do not word stuff.
Iran most certainly invaded.
Iran did not invade Israel. You are hallucinating again.
The Al Qassam militants were acting as Iranian soldiers at the Ayatollah's behest. Iran absolutely invaded. It was Iran's attack.
Iran did not invade Israel. Hamas did.
Chanting dismissed.
You can't dismiss yourself.
Israel is obviously committing genocide.
There is no genocide.
They are willfully bringing on the 2nd Nakba.
There is no genocide.
They HATE the Arab Semites they are eradicating.
There is no genocide.
Fortunately, various groups are documenting the Israeli war crimes and hopefully investigations will follow.
Answer the question put to you.
Nope. Hamas is in it for the money.
Hamas is in it with the stated purpose of wiping out Israel.
It's the Ayatollah who wants Israel destroyed and who insists that the Hamas charter include the Ayatollah's clause of wanting to eliminate all Jews.
Iran is not Gaza.
Iran is, and has been, responsible for all the attacks on Israel over the last thirty years and Israel is aware of this.
Iran did not invade Israel.
Israel simply HATES Arabs and is using this as an excuse to bring on the 2nd Nakba.
Answer the question put to you.
Chanting dismissed. Israel is bringing on the 2nd Nakba.
You can't dismiss yourself. There is no genocide.
Israel is Israel. Israelis are the neo-neo-Nazis bringing on the 2nd Nakba.
There is no genocide.
Hey, watch
... it is hilarious. I guarantee that you will laugh your ass off. Israelis sure know how to mock Palestinians in their misery.
RAAA.
Great observation. Israel has learned many valuable lessons from China. Are you aware of what China is doing to the Uyghurs? It's a reasonable parallel to the Israeli persecution of the Arab Semites. Maybe the Israeli neo-neo-Nazis have a tinge of Maoist influence. Anyway, great point.
Socialism is not capitalism. Redefinition fallacy.
Nope. This EVASION on your part earns you a "Fuck you!" I asked you first.
Inversion fallacy. Answer the question put to you.
I demand accountability and I asked you to join me in calling for fair investigations, and for fair trials where they are warranted.
Answer the question put to you.
You have simply EVADED.
Inversion fallacy. You are describing yourself again. Answer the question put to you.
I'll gladly answer your stupid pivot question after you answer the question put to you.
Fallacy fallacy. Stop evading and answer the question put to you.
Right now, it appears that your EVASION is aimed solely at excusing all of Israel's war crimes and striving to ensure nothing whatsoever is investigated
Answer the question put to you.
however, I'd like you to be the one to state that for the record, or to state that you join me in calling for fair and thorough investigations of everything, and for trials where warranted by those fair investigations.
Answer the question put to you.
Actually, I'll address your pivot question.
I don't know who would be doing the investigations because I'm not the one who will decide that.
Not an answer. Try again.
I'll support you being on the panel that decides who conducts the investigations and who tries the cases.
What panel? Who is organizing it? Answer the question put to you. I won't let you get away with "I don't know".
I just want the investigations and any warranted trials. I want accountability.
Answer the question put to you.
I want the current genocide perpetrated by Israel to be forthwith answered.
There is no genocide.
If fair and thorough investigations reveal that everything the IDF did was kosher then I'll be elated to have been wrong and I will post on JPP to that effect ... but I want those investigations.
Answer the question put to you.
I ignore those who who fight tooth and nail for everything to be preemptively excused, just because it's Israel we're talking about. I will also continue to point out the shittiness of those bigots who equate the murdered noncombatant children with Al Qassam militants. Israel has an obligation to wage war legally.
Answer the question put to you.

Do try to blame YOUR problem on me or anyone else. Do not try to evade any longer. Answer the question put to you. A non-answer is not an answer.
 
You don't get it. Israel has an obligation to wage war legally.

So, we agree that Israel must take special precautions, yes? We agree that Israel can't be recklessly pumping missiles into structures that they know are full of civilian noncombatants, right? We agree that the IDF doesn't get to capriciously kill whomever they wish, right? ... or do you disagree with anything I have stated thus far?

Nope. All illegal warfare and all atrocities should be investigated and forthwith answered.
Correct. It's the genocide that Israel is perpetrating that means Israel is committing genocide. I hope that logic is sufficiently clear for you.
False.
The hospitals have suspended operations. The IDF has made it come to that. Maybe the IDF just enjoys watching Arabs suffer.
Yes. It is entirely their fault. They should be investigated and tried where appropriate.
Nope. I expect to be evacuated before being put in any danger. The feuds of other parties do not justify either of those parties harming me in any way ... and no, you don't get to claim that I somehow deserve whatever I get because of how I might have voted in the past.
Your position that Israel somehow has a right to kill whomever they please (or whomever they HATE) just because they are pointing to their feud with a militant organization is unconscionable.
If the IDF were to ever blow up my home then it would be entirely their fault and any of my family who remain alive would see each and every one of them hang. The fact that you believe that Israel's recklessness is somehow my fault because [insert your special pleading fallacy here] reveals you as a fucking shitty person. You excuse the most heinous of war crimes just because Israel is the perpetrator. Fuck you.
Nope. My being in it takes it off the military target list, you dumbass. The IDF needs to evacuate me first if they want to destroy my home, and then they had better compensate me for my loss.
You are not military and you have never deployed to a war zone. Ask me how I know.
They are stormtroopers.
... yet they have the obligation to do so.
... who happen to be lawful noncombatants who they HATE. Israel is looking to bring on the 2nd Nakba just because they, like you, equate all Arabs with Al Qassam militants.
Right. When you equate a class of people with Al Qassam militants, your tactic transitions to killing the children so they can't attack you in the future.
... when there is no intention of engaging in lawful warfare.
Answer the question put to you. Stop making shit up. Stop getting your news from Hamas. There is no genocide. Iran did not invade Israel. Hamas did. The hospital has resumed operations (thanks for helping to restore that, IDF!).
 
Attacking a military target is legal.
Not always. Being a military target is one requirement. Any attacker retains the obligation to protect civilian non-combatants.

Collateral damage is allowed but a combatant should try to minimize it.
Referring to reckless manslaughter as mere "collateral damage" is unconscionable.

No, that means Israel needs to take ordinary precautions.
I'll accept that answer, noting your attempt to play word games. Can we both agree that reckless warfare does not measure up to "taking necessary precautions"?

If the IDF is taking fire from a particular building, they can blow the hell out of it.
Buildings don't fire upon anyone. Please dispense with the word games. If an enemy combatant is firing at the IDF from a particular building then, no, the IDF does not have blanket approval to destroy that building and all civilian occupants.

If there happen to be civilians in the building too, too bad for them.
You are totally uninformed about warfare. Your position is grotesque. You need to learn that countries get to choose whether or not they got war, but they don't get to choose how they wage war if they don't want their leaders and military members hanging afterwards.

Returning fire on a spotted enemy target or enemy engaged in firing on them? By all means.
Correct. The IDF does not need to wait to be fired upon to eliminate an enemy combatant, if they are using rifles or other individual direct-fire weapons. They don't get to use the opportunity to take out as many Arabs as they can with military ordnance that destroys a high rise apartment building or a city block. The former is legal and responsible while the latter will put them on the wrong end of a noose.

And they can use overwhelming firepower (within reason) to do so.
Let's qualify this. If an IDF soldier is being fired upon by some Al Qassam militant, and the soldier only has a flame thrower, then the soldier is free to turn the militant to ash, i.e. he is not harming any other people. Similarly, if a militant is stupid enough to open fire upon an entire IDF battalion, the entire battalion can unload their magazines into him and they are good. Key point: no children noncombatants were harmed in the liquefication of the militant's corpse. If, however, the battalion is in the process of emptying their magazines and some children appear in the target area, the IDF would need to cease fire ... even if they are Arab children.

That is, some Hamas combatant is firing a rifle or machinegun at them, they can blow the position away with a missile, tank cannon fire, etc.
Nope. With rifles, yes, directed at the enemy. They don't get to destroy the building without evacuating the civilians. They have to protect civilian noncombatants and engage in warfare legally.

If there are civilians nearby, too bad for them.
You are greatly mistaken.

I agree that the IDF just can't randomly shoot up buildings.
This is, in fact, what they are doing. They don't ever confirm the rumors they hear of Hamas being in a building. They simply take out the building ... and then they check to see if the rumor was true. If not, oh well.

They can blow the fuck out of one they figure out is a military target though.
Nope. They can blow the fuck out of it once they have confirmed that they have a military target inside (no civilian building is a military target; the human enemy is the target) and have evacuated the noncombatants. Until then, they can't blow the building.

They don't have to limit their fire to just some tiny spot on the building for example.
They can't destroy the building. They need to 1. ensure they have an enemy trapped in the building and 2. evacuate the civilian noncombatants. The IDF feud with Hamas is no justification to kill civilian noncombatants. It doesn't matter that Israel "declared war." They can declare snow to be purple, it doesn't matter. They don't have any license to kill noncombatants.

They don't have to avoid shooting up mosques or hospitals if they're taking fire from them or have identified active combatants within them.
Once the IDF has evacuated all the noncombatants, they can destroy whatever they wish ... but they need to compensate the owners, of course.

Collateral damage is allowed but should be minimized.
Evacuating noncombatants is required.

The only true war crime is losing. War is an atrocity.
Incorrect. I don't foresee the IDF "losing" ... yet their war crimes should still be investigated and tried where warranted.

Wrong! Genocide is the practice of systematically and completely eliminating a racial group deliberately.
So what part don't you get?

Israel is not doing that
It doesn't have to be "systematic" and yes, Israel is killing the Arab Semites of Gaza at a rate of about 1,000 per week (tens to hundreds per day). "Genocide" is the right word.

Wrong, they continue operating but with reductions in what they can do given the war going on.
The "war" was a unilateral declaration by Israel, i.e. the country perpetrating the genocide. Israel invaded Gaza under the pretense of avenging the Ayatollah's attack on Israel, but their true motive is to commit genocide on civilian Arab Semite noncombatants in Gaza. If Israel had instead opted to wait for those noncombatants to attack Israel in order to have a valid reason for invading Gaza, Israel might as well wait for the cows to come home.
Israel was chomping at the bit to eradicate the Arab plague NOW and thus seized upon Iran's attack on the music festival as their excuse to exterminate the Arabs. As such, Team Israel must deny outright any involvement from Iran lest their vile racism be exposed to the light of day.

You think armies and militaries are police don't you?
I do not. I know the difference, but I don't feel confident that you do.

I never said they have a right to indiscriminately kill whoever they please,
You implied it, and continue to imply it. I can compile an almanac of material from your posts that reveal your belief that the IDF can 1. unilaterally declare a building/structure to be a military target which 2. immediately grants license to destroy that structure and everybody in it and 3. all those innocent noncombatants who die totally deserve whatever happens to them.

If your position isn't the most fucked-up, heartless and inhumane position on JPP, I don't know what is. What the IDF does many times every day constitutes illegal war crimes everywhere. You, nonetheless, excuse them all because of your special pleading fallacy for Israel.

Civilians caught in a battle can be killed but shouldn't be killed on purpose.
Warfare requires combatants to protect noncombatants. Recklessly firing munitions into civilian population centers is illegal for everyone, including for Israelis.

So, now we're getting to the heart of your position. You are antisemitic or very much taking sides in this conflict. You simply don't like that Israel is far, far, more militarily competent than Hamas and see that as "unfair" or something.
You have finally realized that your position is crap and now you are making up shit and hurling insults as a smokescreen. I see that you think that hurling the "antisemitic" slur is some sort of trump card. Your claim that I am taking sides is absurd. You are desperate. You know that your abhorrent antisemitic racism has been exposed and you hope you can stem it by preemptively throwing your adjectives at me. It's too late. My position is nothing more than a demand for accountability and a call for investigations where warranted. Your position is to cheer on genocide and to sweep it under the rug.

Back to you seeing the military as police.
The final act of the desperate is to assign bogus positions so that they have something to attack when they otherwise wouldn't have anything. When I chime in to state that I never confuse military and law enforcement functions, what are you going to do?

Well, the military doesn't have to let you evacuate the way police would.
The military has to protect all noncombatants. Active military firing qualifications include "civilians" among the targets that the shooter must avoid or they don't qualify (or otherwise lose lots of points and risk not qualifying). All military are required to take Law of Armed Conflict training annually which spells all this out completely, including reporting requirements if any of it is ever observed. Ask me how I know that you have never taken this training.

They can blow up and kill enemy combatants and if they cause some collateral damage in the process, that's allowed.
Notice how you feel compelled to avoid the topic of military responsibility in warfare. You wouldn't know what that even is if you were asked.

How do you know?
You have no clue on the topic. You have gotten everything wrong that is in all predeployment training. You firmly believe that egregious war crimes are totally acceptable. You have a Hollywood perspective on warfare.

And, back to the hating on one side because you favor the other...
I don't support anybody. I strongly call for accountability. You obviously can't read English for comprehension.

Wrong! Militaries are NOT police.
Like I said, you don't know the difference between military and law enforcement functions. As such, you don't recognize all that they have in common. Are you aware that they both fire weapons? Are you aware that they both wear uniforms? Yet they have clear-cut differences ... and you don't know what those are.

They have no obligation to arrest anyone or protect the innocent.
Do you know what is happening in this picture? Do you know what obligations have been incurred by the captors? Feel free to answer that you have no idea.

us-soldiers-guard-25-february-1991-somewhere-in-iraqi-desert-captured-iraqi-pows-iraqs.jpg


Militaries are there to win the war they are engaged in.
All militaries are required to wage war legally.

No, Arabs just happen to be totally incompetent militarily.
You are antisemitic.

Israel gave civilians and other noncombatants clear waring and time to leave.
That doesn't cut it. Gaza is densely populated and the IDF has to assume that all civilian population centers contain civilian noncombatants. The IDF need to actively ensure the noncombatants are moved out of harms way. The IDF need to protect the civilian noncombatants. If that becomes somewhat of an inconvenience ... well, too bad. The IDF has legal obligations in warfare.

If every person in Hamas is dead as a result of this war, Hamas ceases to exist.
If every person on the planet dies in a nuclear holocaust, Hamas ceases to exist, yes.

That's clearly Israel's aim here.
I don't find nuclear holocaust any more acceptable that Arab Semite genocide. It's fine if Israel wants to kill Al Qassam militants but Israel needs to stop at the killing of the militants. Israel doesn't get to kill additional people as an added bonus, and they don't get to wipe out the Arab population of Gaza as any sort of grand prize.
 
Hamas attacked Israel and started the war.
Iran attacked Israel. Israel attacked the Arab Semite civilian noncombatants in Gaza. You are incapable of distinguishing who is who.

Let's get your chanting line out of the way.
There is no genocide. There is no genocide. There is no genocide. There is no genocide. There is no genocide. There is no genocide. There is no genocide.
Denial dismissed. Denial dismissed. Denial dismissed. Denial dismissed. Denial dismissed. Denial dismissed. Denial dismissed.

I answer to no one.
Your not honest when Israel is committing genocide. Your dishonesty is dismissed.

For some reason, you are believing the propaganda coming out of Hamas.
Nope. I call for investigations. That way we can separate the truth from the propaganda. You, on the other hand, preemptively forgive genocide, then you deny it, then you insist that nothing be investigated. Smooth move.

Iran didn't invade Israel.
They certainly did. I know you are aware of the attack on the music festival. You have to deny that the attack was coordinated, funded and ordered by Iran long enough for you to get your genocide fix, otherwise you are well aware that Iran coordinates, funds and orders all the attacks. You are being totally dishonest.

I am not pivoting.
You pivot so much that one might be inclined to say that you swivel and put a bar seat on top of you.
 
Not always. Being a military target is one requirement. Any attacker retains the obligation to protect civilian non-combatants.


Referring to reckless manslaughter as mere "collateral damage" is unconscionable.


I'll accept that answer, noting your attempt to play word games. Can we both agree that reckless warfare does not measure up to "taking necessary precautions"?


Buildings don't fire upon anyone. Please dispense with the word games. If an enemy combatant is firing at the IDF from a particular building then, no, the IDF does not have blanket approval to destroy that building and all civilian occupants.


You are totally uninformed about warfare. Your position is grotesque. You need to learn that countries get to choose whether or not they got war, but they don't get to choose how they wage war if they don't want their leaders and military members hanging afterwards.


Correct. The IDF does not need to wait to be fired upon to eliminate an enemy combatant, if they are using rifles or other individual direct-fire weapons. They don't get to use the opportunity to take out as many Arabs as they can with military ordnance that destroys a high rise apartment building or a city block. The former is legal and responsible while the latter will put them on the wrong end of a noose.


Let's qualify this. If an IDF soldier is being fired upon by some Al Qassam militant, and the soldier only has a flame thrower, then the soldier is free to turn the militant to ash, i.e. he is not harming any other people. Similarly, if a militant is stupid enough to open fire upon an entire IDF battalion, the entire battalion can unload their magazines into him and they are good. Key point: no children noncombatants were harmed in the liquefication of the militant's corpse. If, however, the battalion is in the process of emptying their magazines and some children appear in the target area, the IDF would need to cease fire ... even if they are Arab children.


Nope. With rifles, yes, directed at the enemy. They don't get to destroy the building without evacuating the civilians. They have to protect civilian noncombatants and engage in warfare legally.


You are greatly mistaken.


This is, in fact, what they are doing. They don't ever confirm the rumors they hear of Hamas being in a building. They simply take out the building ... and then they check to see if the rumor was true. If not, oh well.


Nope. They can blow the fuck out of it once they have confirmed that they have a military target inside (no civilian building is a military target; the human enemy is the target) and have evacuated the noncombatants. Until then, they can't blow the building.


They can't destroy the building. They need to 1. ensure they have an enemy trapped in the building and 2. evacuate the civilian noncombatants. The IDF feud with Hamas is no justification to kill civilian noncombatants. It doesn't matter that Israel "declared war." They can declare snow to be purple, it doesn't matter. They don't have any license to kill noncombatants.


Once the IDF has evacuated all the noncombatants, they can destroy whatever they wish ... but they need to compensate the owners, of course.


Evacuating noncombatants is required.


Incorrect. I don't foresee the IDF "losing" ... yet their war crimes should still be investigated and tried where warranted.


So what part don't you get?


It doesn't have to be "systematic" and yes, Israel is killing the Arab Semites of Gaza at a rate of about 1,000 per week (tens to hundreds per day). "Genocide" is the right word.


The "war" was a unilateral declaration by Israel, i.e. the country perpetrating the genocide. Israel invaded Gaza under the pretense of avenging the Ayatollah's attack on Israel, but their true motive is to commit genocide on civilian Arab Semite noncombatants in Gaza. If Israel had instead opted to wait for those noncombatants to attack Israel in order to have a valid reason for invading Gaza, Israel might as well wait for the cows to come home.
Israel was chomping at the bit to eradicate the Arab plague NOW and thus seized upon Iran's attack on the music festival as their excuse to exterminate the Arabs. As such, Team Israel must deny outright any involvement from Iran lest their vile racism be exposed to the light of day.


I do not. I know the difference, but I don't feel confident that you do.


You implied it, and continue to imply it. I can compile an almanac of material from your posts that reveal your belief that the IDF can 1. unilaterally declare a building/structure to be a military target which 2. immediately grants license to destroy that structure and everybody in it and 3. all those innocent noncombatants who die totally deserve whatever happens to them.

If your position isn't the most fucked-up, heartless and inhumane position on JPP, I don't know what is. What the IDF does many times every day constitutes illegal war crimes everywhere. You, nonetheless, excuse them all because of your special pleading fallacy for Israel.


Warfare requires combatants to protect noncombatants. Recklessly firing munitions into civilian population centers is illegal for everyone, including for Israelis.


You have finally realized that your position is crap and now you are making up shit and hurling insults as a smokescreen. I see that you think that hurling the "antisemitic" slur is some sort of trump card. Your claim that I am taking sides is absurd. You are desperate. You know that your abhorrent antisemitic racism has been exposed and you hope you can stem it by preemptively throwing your adjectives at me. It's too late. My position is nothing more than a demand for accountability and a call for investigations where warranted. Your position is to cheer on genocide and to sweep it under the rug.


The final act of the desperate is to assign bogus positions so that they have something to attack when they otherwise wouldn't have anything. When I chime in to state that I never confuse military and law enforcement functions, what are you going to do?


The military has to protect all noncombatants. Active military firing qualifications include "civilians" among the targets that the shooter must avoid or they don't qualify (or otherwise lose lots of points and risk not qualifying). All military are required to take Law of Armed Conflict training annually which spells all this out completely, including reporting requirements if any of it is ever observed. Ask me how I know that you have never taken this training.


Notice how you feel compelled to avoid the topic of military responsibility in warfare. You wouldn't know what that even is if you were asked.


You have no clue on the topic. You have gotten everything wrong that is in all predeployment training. You firmly believe that egregious war crimes are totally acceptable. You have a Hollywood perspective on warfare.


I don't support anybody. I strongly call for accountability. You obviously can't read English for comprehension.


Like I said, you don't know the difference between military and law enforcement functions. As such, you don't recognize all that they have in common. Are you aware that they both fire weapons? Are you aware that they both wear uniforms? Yet they have clear-cut differences ... and you don't know what those are.


Do you know what is happening in this picture? Do you know what obligations have been incurred by the captors? Feel free to answer that you have no idea.

us-soldiers-guard-25-february-1991-somewhere-in-iraqi-desert-captured-iraqi-pows-iraqs.jpg



All militaries are required to wage war legally.


You are antisemitic.


That doesn't cut it. Gaza is densely populated and the IDF has to assume that all civilian population centers contain civilian noncombatants. The IDF need to actively ensure the noncombatants are moved out of harms way. The IDF need to protect the civilian noncombatants. If that becomes somewhat of an inconvenience ... well, too bad. The IDF has legal obligations in warfare.


If every person on the planet dies in a nuclear holocaust, Hamas ceases to exist, yes.


I don't find nuclear holocaust any more acceptable that Arab Semite genocide. It's fine if Israel wants to kill Al Qassam militants but Israel needs to stop at the killing of the militants. Israel doesn't get to kill additional people as an added bonus, and they don't get to wipe out the Arab population of Gaza as any sort of grand prize.

There is no genocide. Stop your chanting and answer the question put to you.
 
So, here's where I Be A Moron is at:

IBAM thinks that Israel has to play by US military rules which is bullshit. Nobody else plays by those rules. Not Israel, not Hamas, not the Ukrainians, not the Russians, not the Chinese...

For the US military, it's becoming they are a glorified police force, a "super SWAT" team. It's utter bullshit brought by lawyers who now have to sign off on battle plans, training that makes soldiers policemen instead, and completely eviscerates military effectiveness against any enemy that is competent.

The Law of Armed Conflict training IBAM mentions started in August 2020, about 15 years after I retired. I read up on it some. It's fucking insane bullshit. Lawyers cannot run an effective military. It won't happen. The second the US gets into a real war with somebody that actually can fight a war, all that bullshit will go out the window or the US loses that war.

Given all that, the picture IBAM put up amounts to US troops acting as police officers guarding a bunch of criminals or rioters whom they have arrested and are holding them for trail. That is utter stupidity. Either they are POW's of an enemy combatant nation and were wearing uniforms and insignia that show that, or they were "spies and saboteurs" and should be field court martialed (military trial) and if found guilty of fighting in mufti / non-military attire, taken out and summary executed as allowed by common military law.

Israel hasn't fallen for this lawyer / Progressive Leftist bullshit. They're fighting a "real" war to obtain real results. Hamas is fucked as a result. It won't be the insane, police based, thinking that has permeated the US military as is increasingly making it ineffective.
 
There is no genocide.
Your absurd chanting is dismissed. Stop your chanting and your EVASION and answer the question put to you.

Will you join me in calling for honest and thorough investigations into the apparent war crimes perpetrated by the IDF, and for fair trials where appropriate as determined by the aforementioned investigations, so as to close out these seemingly abhorrent events/issues, and bring clarity and closure?

... or will you insist that everything be swept under the rug, and nothing investigated lest Team Israel be possibly put in a bad light?
 
IBAM thinks that Israel has to play by US military rules which is bullshit.
This is not my position. My position is that Israel is obligated to abide by the laws of armed conflict, even if T. A. Gardner doesn't know what those are.

Nobody else plays by those rules.
Everybody adheres to the laws of armed conflict or else they answer for them. Just not Israel. Team Israel wants the civilian Arab Semite noncombatants in Gaza eradicated and has therefore preemptively excused all war crimes on the part of the IDF.

The Law of Armed Conflict training IBAM mentions started in August 2020, about 15 years after I retired.
Incorrect. It was required annual training for military more than a decade prior to that. Of course, it was the law long before even that.

I read up on it some. It's fucking insane bullshit.
The US' implementation does, in fact, contain a lot of booooolsch't. For example, it is perfectly acceptable to destroy an enemy fighter jet, killing the pilot. It is strictly prohibited, however, to use an ultra-high-powered laser to blind the pilot, forcing him to eject and remain alive, because that would be too cruel. Dum-dum bullets are prohibited because they increase the probability that a soldier will kill whomever he hits, and that is cruel, despite it being the soldier's singular intention.

Nobody gets to discard the laws of armed conflict by pointing to any country's stupid incorporation of those laws into their military operations.

Lawyers cannot run an effective military.
Congress will nonetheless make laws that govern how our military operates. All countries are responsible for ensuring that their militaries operate within LOAC. Thus military commanders listen to their lawyers who are assigned to keep commanders from the gallows.

The second the US gets into a real war with somebody that actually can fight a war, all that bullshit will go out the window or the US loses that war.
Incorrect. You don't know what you're talking about. The military incorporates all of Congress' laws into their doctrine and their training, and that includes requiring every soldier to take mandatory LOAC training.

Given all that, the picture IBAM put up amounts to US troops acting as police officers guarding a bunch of criminals or rioters whom they have arrested and are holding them for trail.
Not as police, as military who have captured POWs. Have you never heard that term? The military is fully responsible for the safety and well being of all POWs in their custody. How do you not know this?


Israel hasn't fallen for this lawyer / Progressive Leftist bullshit.
Israel has not found it necessary to adhere to LOAC. My hope is that all of their seeming war crimes will be investigated.

They're fighting a "real" war to obtain real results.
They are perpetrating genocide to obtain real results.

Hamas is fucked as a result.
IDF commanders might very well be fucked as a result.
 
Your absurd chanting is dismissed. Stop your chanting and your EVASION and answer the question put to you.

Will you join me in calling for honest and thorough investigations into the apparent war crimes perpetrated by the IDF, and for fair trials where appropriate as determined by the aforementioned investigations, so as to close out these seemingly abhorrent events/issues, and bring clarity and closure?

... or will you insist that everything be swept under the rug, and nothing investigated lest Team Israel be possibly put in a bad light?

Inversion fallacy. Answer the question put to you.
 
This is not my position. My position is that Israel is obligated to abide by the laws of armed conflict, even if T. A. Gardner doesn't know what those are.


Everybody adheres to the laws of armed conflict or else they answer for them. Just not Israel. Team Israel wants the civilian Arab Semite noncombatants in Gaza eradicated and has therefore preemptively excused all war crimes on the part of the IDF.


Incorrect. It was required annual training for military more than a decade prior to that. Of course, it was the law long before even that.


The US' implementation does, in fact, contain a lot of booooolsch't. For example, it is perfectly acceptable to destroy an enemy fighter jet, killing the pilot. It is strictly prohibited, however, to use an ultra-high-powered laser to blind the pilot, forcing him to eject and remain alive, because that would be too cruel. Dum-dum bullets are prohibited because they increase the probability that a soldier will kill whomever he hits, and that is cruel, despite it being the soldier's singular intention.

Nobody gets to discard the laws of armed conflict by pointing to any country's stupid incorporation of those laws into their military operations.


Congress will nonetheless make laws that govern how our military operates. All countries are responsible for ensuring that their militaries operate within LOAC. Thus military commanders listen to their lawyers who are assigned to keep commanders from the gallows.


Incorrect. You don't know what you're talking about. The military incorporates all of Congress' laws into their doctrine and their training, and that includes requiring every soldier to take mandatory LOAC training.


Not as police, as military who have captured POWs. Have you never heard that term? The military is fully responsible for the safety and well being of all POWs in their custody. How do you not know this?



Israel has not found it necessary to adhere to LOAC. My hope is that all of their seeming war crimes will be investigated.


They are perpetrating genocide to obtain real results.


IDF commanders might very well be fucked as a result.

There is no genocide. Answer the question put to you.
 
Back
Top