Super Freak

TexasMeg said:
You are seeing only one side of this. Yes you have a point...as you often do, but what of all these men and women who are just retired, or close to it, that have now lost everything? What do they do now? Some have lost their money because banks have failed, and some have lost their money because their IRA's and 401k's went to shit in the last year. Are they in the top 2%??? I am sitting here thinking of my dad who is a firefighter...HARDLY top 2%. He raised me as a single parent and worked his ass off to save money so he could have a decent retirement. He was pretty comfortable and about to retire over a year ago due to his saving and smart investing. Sad to say it's not happening now. There are MILLIONS like him that have lost so much. You seem to be venting as if everyone who has lost so much in this market is in the same comfortable position and it's just not true.
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Meg I just want to add that, I am specifically answering Chap and his complaints on this thread. Chap is in a specific socio-economic category, and I am also trying to point out that you can't really blame someone who never had a 401k, and certainly is not playing the markets, and doesn't go on vacation, to feel sorry for Chap and want to bail him out, can you? I can't.

It is not that I am totally against a package. It's that I'm totally against THIS package. Add in extended and increased unemployment benefits, REAL help for the homeowner in trouble, change the bankruptcy code to allow bankruptcy judges to step in, and for instance, I heard Kucinich talking last night about a plan that includes a 1/2 of a percent surcharge on stock transactions. He said that would raise enough for them to bail themselves out, or at least, to pay all of this back. Now we're talking! Why is it that in this country, it is alway only the poor who have to take responsibility for their actions, lift themselves up, pay their bills? Let's spread some of that personal responsibility around!
 
Ohh you CAN'T add a 1/2 percent surcharge onto stock transactions! I can hear SF and chap and top sceaming. Turblib moron!

Oh yeah, I pay way more than that in surcharges and taxes to fly, and you can pay too, too bad about you!
 
Darla said:
Now you want more taxes from everyone, in order to keep the stock market inflated so that people do not lose personal investments. The stock market is a gamble, and it's not one that society needs to be covering with tax dollars. At some point, thems the breaks. That's why I insist on SS and medicare. I cannot however, say that society has a responsibility to go beyond those basic neccessaties, and provide a cushy retirement.
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The reason the stock market and our economy is tanking is because of what the governement did. Now they need to fix the mess THEY caused and do there job (what we pay them for) to get control of the corruption and greed that is present on wall street and protect the individual investors and make its a place where people WANT to put there money.

As much as I wonder if you even want a capitalist society (starting to think you'd prefer the alternative) The fact of the matter is that we need a vibrant vehicle in which capital can be raised for companies like alternative energy and bio-medicine. Without investors in the stock market the capital will have to be raised from somewhere else and believe me it wont come as easy. It will be a huge barrier for new business and a free for all for the big corporations.

What we need is for the govt to actually spend our money on us where its needed and not on other countries and then to do there fucking job with the 2.8T a year we pay them and protect the very foundation of this country. We need regulation that rips the hedge funds who essentially caused this mess. We need regulation that does not allow some slob with bankruptcies and poor credit who cant afford a house the ability to buy a house.

Im very pleased that today's version of the bailout has included in it tax incentives for alternative energy that the democrats voted against last week. Lets hope that it passes vote tonight.
 
Darla said:
Chap, if you're not in the top 2%, you're in the top 5%. You didn't qualify for a tax rebate, and I thought you said you would be effected by Obama's tax increase, and only the top 5% are.
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I doubt that the bottom 95% of people some of whom have capital gains will agree with that statement by obama.

There is such a thing as retiring and not having money in tax deferred accounts any longer.

Im not totally against the idea of a cap against tax increase if its offset with tax decreases somewhere else but lets call a spade a spade.
 
Chapdog said:
I doubt that the bottom 95% of people some of whom have capital gains will agree with that statement by obama.

There is such a thing as retiring and not having money in tax deferred accounts any longer.

Im not totally against the idea of a cap against tax increase if its offset with tax decreases somewhere else but lets call a spade a spade.
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Yeah lets call a spade a spade. Cutting taxes or holding the net at the same is not going to dig us out of this hole we are in. and I am not only talking about the current finiancial fiasco.


I have capital gains. I do not whine about taxes. I have salary ( for a little while more) I do not whine about paying taxes on them either.
I have no tax deferred "investments", I like the pay as you go concept. Why ? Because I saw what was coming.
 
uscitizen said:
Yeah lets call a spade a spade. Cutting taxes or holding the net at the same is not going to dig us out of this hole we are in. and I am not only talking about the current finiancial fiasco.


I have capital gains. I do not whine about taxes. I have salary ( for a little while more) I do not whine about paying taxes on them either.
I have no tax deferred "investments", I like the pay as you go concept. Why ? Because I saw what was coming.
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with all due respect your close to retiring. for the youngsters here (including myself at 34) I need growth. My age group was forced into the DC plans from the DB plans. We are expected to save for our own retirements. I will not get a pension, unknown for social security, unknown for health care coverage.
 
Onceler said:
Well, getting back to the original thread topic, I will say this: the market closed up 500 pts. (and I think SF had said it would go down another 500).

They're saying it's because they think another bailout will pass, but it just goes to show ya; I don't think anyone really has a handle on this. It's worse than predicting the weather...
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Hmmm... seems like that dead cat bounce was just that. Dow close to breaking under 10k today. Like I said, it is more likely to see 8000 before it gets back to 11500.
 
they can pay for the extra regulations needed anyway they want.
Your are clueless on me Dhula, I think we need way more regulation and am very against the bailout and the pork.
 
Chapdog said:
with all due respect your close to retiring. for the youngsters here (including myself at 34) I need growth. My age group was forced into the DC plans from the DB plans. We are expected to save for our own retirements. I will not get a pension, unknown for social security, unknown for health care coverage.
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My pension is piddly. SS is very weak. I had to do it on my own.
Medicare will be handy though.
 
I feel for the chaps of the world, gotta go soley with the 401.
My pension payout used to be equal and is now way larger than the 401.
 
Darla said:
And meanwhile, we are short another 700 trillion. So, that worked.
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LMAO...

1) I assume you meant billion
2) That 700 billiion has not even begun to work its way into the markets. Hell, from what I heard (which I still need to verify) most of that is not going to be immediately available anyway. Only 250b at first.

3) We still need to see HOW the idiots in DC go about buying these securities. Do they buy at market? at economic value? or somewhere in between?.
 
Superfreak said:
LMAO...

1) I assume you meant billion
2) That 700 billiion has not even begun to work its way into the markets. Hell, from what I heard (which I still need to verify) most of that is not going to be immediately available anyway. Only 250b at first.

3) We still need to see HOW the idiots in DC go about buying these securities. Do they buy at market? at economic value? or somewhere in between?.
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The question that should be asked is "If not for the bailout, what would you have gotten for them when you filed bankruptcy?" Then add just a bit to the value.
 
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