Teen birth rates highest in most religious states

PostmodernProphet said:
lots of liberal lip flapping for no purpose....of course sex education is about procreation.....and it is provided in every school in this country.....what's your point.....

your post claimed we wanted a different perspective than is presently provided in the public schools and that even though it was provided it didn't change anything....the fact remains, the schools do NOT presently provide that perspective....thus, your post was nothing more than foolishness babble....which is what we expect from a liberal....
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Pwned again, ehh PiMP? LOL What is it with you and these circular arguments?
 
This doesn't surprise me. The fact is, kids are going to fuck no matter what. Is that a positive thing? Not by any means. However, no amount of indoctrination will stop them from doing it. That is why contraception should be promoted alongside abstinence. Abstinence should certainly be encouraged, but by itself it is not effective. This has been proven time and time again.
 
Socrtease said:
No you fucking dolt. My point is you want it taught in school and you can't even make it stick at home. It is countered everyday in school? Your god is so impotent that the teaching from home and the church can be countered? Your belief system and your god have failed. Not even fear of hell, calling sex a sin, the use of the word slut whore or harlot has ever stopped people from having sex. Teen birth rates were highest in 1957 before god was supplanted by secularism and reproduction classes. Christ even the act of calling it sex ed is wrong. Sex ed teaches nothing about sex and everything about procreation. If it was sex ed they would teach that hand jobs and trojan finger vibrators are a perfectly good substitute for for sex. I grew up in a house where I was not forced to go to church or be religious and I never had coitus before I was 19. The fact is you can't even figure out that what you can't get to stick at home will NEVER stick in School. After the instinct to eat, sex is the second strongest instinct in the human being. Fear of a god that will later forgive you if you just say sorry is never going to overcome that.
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This is looking at it through the darkest of partisan shaded glasses.

Somebody looking at it through opposite shaded glasses:

These people put their lives where their mouths are, they stick to a belief. While abortion is available they live with the result of poor decisions and take responsibility for their action by giving birth rather than killing a burgeoning life so that they can make their own life easier.

Now something closer to reality:

This isn't taught in the schools, even if they want it to be because the schools have fought it, and those where it is taught at all it is INCLUDED as part of the normal curriculum that also contains condoms, etc. The most likely conclusion is the kids are more often hiding it and making poor decisions because they already know what their parents will have to say and have made a decision to do what they will regardless and hope the consequences they know exist won't catch up with them. Most of them are successful in avoiding the consequences, but there is a higher instance of these circumstances in these places that result from the belief system as well as parents openly speaking against it so that the teen will know what they will say as they venture into "sinful" experimentation.
 
Damocles said:
This is looking at it through the darkest of partisan shaded glasses.

Somebody looking at it through opposite shaded glasses:

These people put their lives where their mouths are, they stick to a belief. While abortion is available they live with the result of poor decisions and take responsibility for their action by giving birth rather than killing a burgeoning life so that they can make their own life easier.

Now something closer to reality:

This isn't taught in the schools, even if they want it to be because the schools have fought it, and those where it is taught at all it is INCLUDED as part of the normal curriculum that also contains condoms, etc. The most likely conclusion is the kids are more often hiding it and making poor decisions because they already know what their parents will have to say and have made a decision to do what they will regardless and hope the consequences they know exist won't catch up with them. Most of them are successful in avoiding the consequences, but there is a higher instance of these circumstances in these places that result from the belief system as well as parents openly speaking against it so that the teen will know what they will say as they venture into "sinful" experimentation.
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In am not even getting into the abortion debate. This is solely about how religious indoctrination has failed for kids when they hit puberty. I agree that kids should be encouraged to abstain, but abstinance only education has failed by every measure imaginable. Abstinance+ is the best and should be taught everywhere. But remember, your side also threw a holy shitfit when Elders said that schools should teach masturbation as a valid substitute to sexual intercourse. Your side is the only side that believes if you just don't teach sex ed then kids won't have sex. 1957 proves that is a lie, because there was no sex education then and that was the year with the highest teen pregnancy rates ever in the US.

And only a man could say that having an abortion makes a woman's life easier. Abortion is the last worst choice a woman should ever have to make, but again, it is your side of the political fence that sees pregnancy as a gift, and a baby as punishment for failing to keep your legs closed. You would think that such a beautiful gift would be worthy of societal expendures to make sure that the mother could take care of her "gift" but you conservatives whine, cry and gnash your teeth at that thought almost as much as you do about abortion.
 
Socrtease said:
In am not even getting into the abortion debate. This is solely about how religious indoctrination has failed for kids when they hit puberty. I agree that kids should be encouraged to abstain, but abstinance only education has failed by every measure imaginable. Abstinance+ is the best and should be taught everywhere. But remember, your side also threw a holy shitfit when Elders said that schools should teach masturbation as a valid substitute to sexual intercourse. Your side is the only side that believes if you just don't teach sex ed then kids won't have sex. 1957 proves that is a lie, because there was no sex education then and that was the year with the highest teen pregnancy rates ever in the US.
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We actually had a sex education class at our church, they covered it pretty much in the same year that they covered it in school. Surprisingly, they were open and honest and even covered contraception (which isn't considered a sin in those protestant circles that I know of.) I've always been amazed at how open they were. I know that this is likely not the experience of all kids growing up in a pentecostal church as I did, but it was mine.
 
Socrtease said:
In am not even getting into the abortion debate. This is solely about how religious indoctrination has failed for kids when they hit puberty. I agree that kids should be encouraged to abstain, but abstinance only education has failed by every measure imaginable. Abstinance+ is the best and should be taught everywhere. But remember, your side also threw a holy shitfit when Elders said that schools should teach masturbation as a valid substitute to sexual intercourse. Your side is the only side that believes if you just don't teach sex ed then kids won't have sex. 1957 proves that is a lie, because there was no sex education then and that was the year with the highest teen pregnancy rates ever in the US.
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I have yet to hear anybody suggest that abstinence only should replace sex education in the schools, this is my point. It is a straw man to suggest that it is all they hear, and because of that they get pregnant. In all cases that I have heard the argument made they ask that abstinence be included in and not replace the current curriculum and in no place that I know of is abstinence-only actually taught, except maybe parochial schools.

I don't think it is the fact that they don't know about contraception that gets the kids pregnant, or keeps them from abortions when they do become pregnant. I think this is a short-sided view based on your negative view of religion in politics, one that you and I both share, I just don't allow that to cloud my understanding of those religious people that I know, nor to dismiss their argument using a straw man like this one.
 
It is not a strawman. They have spent the last 30 years decrying the absence of god in public schools and blaming every sort of societal ill on that issue. The fact is, those that do pray can't keep their own houses in order. Their religiopolitical view point doesn't work in their own house but they continue to want to shove it down the throats of people that don't believe by telling us our kids can just sit by quietly while they say pretty words to their invisible magic man. I know how they act because as an atheist child I put up with the taunts and even fights because I refused to believe in the magic man. I had Christian parents tell me never to play with their children again and that I was going to hell. They do want to force all of us to believe as they do. They think it is the job of Government and its schools to save our souls. The Romans needed more lions.
 
Socrtease said:
In am not even getting into the abortion debate. This is solely about how religious indoctrination has failed for kids when they hit puberty.
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and that is where your claim fails.....we have a simple statistic, that the rate of teen pregnancy is higher in conservative states...

in order to reach your conclusions, you need to make the following assumptions, over and above the statistic...

1) that the conservative states are conservative because of a particular religious perspective instead of a variety of other reasons to be conservative...
2) that teen pregnancy in all states is balanced proportionately between religious and non-religious teens (otherwise, you cannot conclude that the difference in the "religious" states is caused by religion)...notice that while this assumption is necessary to support your claim, it automatically negates your claim, as religious teens in other states than the religious ones would have to have a different perspective on religion and pregnancy than those in the religious states....
3) that the teens getting pregnant are religious....
4) that a supportive education program in the schools would not actually cause a different perspective among both religious and non-religious teens....

what it boils down to is simple ignorance on the part of the left, ie USC's failure to realize that nobody gets pregnant if they abstain from sex....to deride the concept even while demonstrating palpable ignorance of basic biology does nothing to lend credence to the left's approach to this problem......
 
Socrtease said:
In am not even getting into the abortion debate. This is solely about how religious indoctrination has failed for kids when they hit puberty. I agree that kids should be encouraged to abstain, but abstinance only education has failed by every measure imaginable. Abstinance+ is the best and should be taught everywhere. But remember, your side also threw a holy shitfit when Elders said that schools should teach masturbation as a valid substitute to sexual intercourse. Your side is the only side that believes if you just don't teach sex ed then kids won't have sex. 1957 proves that is a lie, because there was no sex education then and that was the year with the highest teen pregnancy rates ever in the US.

And only a man could say that having an abortion makes a woman's life easier. Abortion is the last worst choice a woman should ever have to make, but again, it is your side of the political fence that sees pregnancy as a gift, and a baby as punishment for failing to keep your legs closed. You would think that such a beautiful gift would be worthy of societal expendures to make sure that the mother could take care of her "gift" but you conservatives whine, cry and gnash your teeth at that thought almost as much as you do about abortion.
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(Emphasis added)

That has always puzzled me, as well. If babies are God's gift, a unique life, something sacred, then why aren't those folks tripping over each other to help the single mom? They must be suffering from a wicked case of Cognitive Dissidence.
 
Socrtease said:
It is not a strawman. They have spent the last 30 years decrying the absence of god in public schools and blaming every sort of societal ill on that issue. The fact is, those that do pray can't keep their own houses in order. Their religiopolitical view point doesn't work in their own house but they continue to want to shove it down the throats of people that don't believe by telling us our kids can just sit by quietly while they say pretty words to their invisible magic man. I know how they act because as an atheist child I put up with the taunts and even fights because I refused to believe in the magic man. I had Christian parents tell me never to play with their children again and that I was going to hell. They do want to force all of us to believe as they do. They think it is the job of Government and its schools to save our souls. The Romans needed more lions.
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As I said, you have a jaundiced view based on personal experience. If they did indeed argue to replace the curriculum rather than simply to include it I would be on your side. If they had in fact replaced that curriculum in any of these areas I would put it forward as an example of that failure. Neither of those conditions are true.

Imagine a young boy in the middle of a church with over 10,000 members being the only one to raise their hand when asked to if you were not a Christian during a youth service at that church. Your experience differs little from mine, but I don't let it make me make up stuff.
 
The truth is an overwhelming majority of these kids are raised in Christian households seeing that nationwide 8 in 10 people identify as christian.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
and that is where your claim fails.....we have a simple statistic, that the rate of teen pregnancy is higher in conservative states...

in order to reach your conclusions, you need to make the following assumptions, over and above the statistic...

1) that the conservative states are conservative because of a particular religious perspective instead of a variety of other reasons to be conservative...
2) that teen pregnancy in all states is balanced proportionately between religious and non-religious teens (otherwise, you cannot conclude that the difference in the "religious" states is caused by religion)...notice that while this assumption is necessary to support your claim, it automatically negates your claim, as religious teens in other states than the religious ones would have to have a different perspective on religion and pregnancy than those in the religious states....
3) that the teens getting pregnant are religious....
4) that a supportive education program in the schools would not actually cause a different perspective among both religious and non-religious teens....

what it boils down to is simple ignorance on the part of the left, ie USC's failure to realize that nobody gets pregnant if they abstain from sex....to deride the concept even while demonstrating palpable ignorance of basic biology does nothing to lend credence to the left's approach to this problem......
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Maybe TV reception is poor in the south and, well, no TV at night so what's one to do?
 
apple0154 said:
(Emphasis added)

That has always puzzled me, as well. If babies are God's gift, a unique life, something sacred, then why aren't those folks tripping over each other to help the single mom? They must be suffering from a wicked case of Cognitive Dissidence.
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and who says we don't?.....we have plenty of assistance for single mothers....but here's a deal....will you agree to end all abortions if we increase support?....
 
Socrtease said:
The truth is an overwhelming majority of these kids are raised in Christian households seeing that nationwide 8 in 10 people identify as christian.
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And the truth is so are the inner city children who get pregnant. Because 8 in 10 people identify as Christian. This is neither here nor there. The reality is that their kids know what contraception is, because they have learned about it in sex ed classes, just like the kids in the inner city.

It isn't "abstinence only" eduction in the schools, because they aren't getting such an eduction in their schools by and large.
 
Socrtease said:
The truth is an overwhelming majority of these kids are raised in Christian households seeing that nationwide 8 in 10 people identify as christian.
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then you have just destroyed your argument.....if the kids in all the states are 8/10ths from Christian households, then the difference in teen pregnancy in red states has nothing to do with religion.......
 
Tabasco said:
This doesn't surprise me. The fact is, kids are going to fuck no matter what. Is that a positive thing? Not by any means. However, no amount of indoctrination will stop them from doing it. That is why contraception should be promoted alongside abstinence. Abstinence should certainly be encouraged, but by itself it is not effective. This has been proven time and time again.
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Well yea actually it is a good thing. Sex is a wonderfull thing and young people should and will enjoy it. What's important is to teach them how to be responsible about sex. Sex was a very open topic in my house. Not only did I get taught the mechanics but I was also taught the values, such as, you don't want to be stuck at home or working 16 hours a day to raise a baby then you'd better think twice about having sex. Sex education works and abstinence as part of a well rounded sex education program is vital but abstinence only is utter stupidity.
 
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