Thanks Obamacare

DigitalDave said:
In other words, you aren't up to debate it's merits nor discuss anything that doesn't confirm your own beliefs on the subject. I didn't come here attacking you nor did I insult you in any way. I came to debate the topic and all I've gotten from you is feeble attempts to attack my character. If you want a system that helps you, then you need to try a little harder at getting that to happen. Until then, I'll focus my efforts on someone who actually has an argument other than 'Nah nee nah nee boo boo, you can't prove it!'

I gave my reasoning as to why it could reduce the costs, and should. I can't guarantee it because frankly, I feel the government could very easily set this up like they did with Medicare or the ACA if we, as a society, don't discuss this and get it right. We'll just let the Medical industry lobbyists decide.. right?
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I know my personal situation when it comes to coverage. It's very good and very inexpensive as a whole. Unless someone can provide something that is going to give me certainty that it will help ME, there are no merits of anything else that need discussing. I've asked many Obamacare supporters what it is going to do to help ME and why I should support something when what I have is very good. None have been able to tell me how it will help me and many have chastised me for looking out for myself. The funny thing is their support of it is that it provides something to someone looking out for themselves and have indicated they didn't have a problem with my costs going up as long as those that didn't have coverage finally got it. Not interested.
 
CFM said:
I know my personal situation when it comes to coverage. It's very good and very inexpensive as a whole. Unless someone can provide something that is going to give me certainty that it will help ME, there are no merits of anything else that need discussing. I've asked many Obamacare supporters what it is going to do to help ME and why I should support something when what I have is very good. None have been able to tell me how it will help me and many have chastised me for looking out for myself. The funny thing is their support of it is that it provides something to someone looking out for themselves and have indicated they didn't have a problem with my costs going up as long as those that didn't have coverage finally got it. Not interested.
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If you are asking what Obamacare will do to help you from me, you are misunderstanding my statements. I am not an Obamacare supporter and feel it's worse for us. I support a single payer system, however I am skeptical of how it would be implemented in the current political environment. If it is anything like how Obamacare, count me out as well. My comments have been regarding how a single payer system could help you, and the initial thought is that it would remove the costs caused by administrative and corporate profit. It would also provide better leverage to manage costs.
 
DigitalDave said:
If you are asking what Obamacare will do to help you from me, you are misunderstanding my statements. I am not an Obamacare supporter and feel it's worse for us. I support a single payer system, however I am skeptical of how it would be implemented in the current political environment. If it is anything like how Obamacare, count me out as well. My comments have been regarding how a single payer system could help you, and the initial thought is that it would remove the costs caused by administrative and corporate profit. It would also provide better leverage to manage costs.
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Explain what single payer will do for me and how it will help me.

All you have is thoughts of what it MIGHT do. If I'm going to support something, I need to KNOW how it's better for me. You talk about how it could do this or that yet nothing to back it up.
 
CFM said:
Explain what single payer will do for me and how it will help me.

All you have is thoughts of what it MIGHT do. If I'm going to support something, I need to KNOW how it's better for me. You talk about how it could do this or that yet nothing to back it up.
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It will all depend on how it's implemented! There are single payer systems throughout the world right now, and they all work a little bit differently from the others. All I can do is speculate what it might do, if I want to stick to being honest. What the system SHOULD do if implemented correctly, is replace your current health insurance policy with another system that is more centralized and not-for-profit. This, in turn, will keep your costs low while also providing a more suitable system for everyone. This also means you wouldn't lose your policy, should you lose your job. Unless you are paying for it on your own. Then I would have to ask what you consider a good rate.
 
DigitalDave said:
It will all depend on how it's implemented! There are single payer systems throughout the world right now, and they all work a little bit differently from the others. All I can do is speculate what it might do, if I want to stick to being honest. What the system SHOULD do if implemented correctly, is replace your current health insurance policy with another system that is more centralized and not-for-profit. This, in turn, will keep your costs low while also providing a more suitable system for everyone. This also means you wouldn't lose your policy, should you lose your job. Unless you are paying for it on your own. Then I would have to ask what you consider a good rate.
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If I'm going to support something, I need more than speculation. I don't want what should, I want to hear what will.

I pay zero premium for my coverage now and the max I will pay out of pocket in a year's time is $750. I consider that good.

What about those who don't contribute to the system. Do they still get coverage?
 
CFM said:
If I'm going to support something, I need more than speculation. I don't want what should, I want to hear what will.

I pay zero premium for my coverage now and the max I will pay out of pocket in a year's time is $750. I consider that good.

What about those who don't contribute to the system. Do they still get coverage?
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Well good on you for those rates. The complete opposite happened to me when Obamacare got implemented. I currently have had to take a high deductible policy in order to keep my rates similar. I now have a deductible of $6250. In order to help offset any medical problems that may occur through the year, I started putting $50 a check aside into an HSA, which carries over year to year. My company also deposits $1000 at the start of the year into that as long as I follow the yearly regiment that they ask us to do. I also dropped Dental, since periodic cleanings were much cheaper than having to pay the monthly rate. If something did come up, the HSA would cover it. Basically, my insurance blows, and doesn't cover anything, so I have a savings account dedicated to medical costs. We are not in the same boat, and I couldn't convince you that this would be cheaper for you, at least not yet. Should your employer change their policies though, you might wish there was a single payer option.
 
DigitalDave said:
Well good on you for those rates. The complete opposite happened to me when Obamacare got implemented. I currently have had to take a high deductible policy in order to keep my rates similar. I now have a deductible of $6250. In order to help offset any medical problems that may occur through the year, I started putting $50 a check aside into an HSA, which carries over year to year. My company also deposits $1000 at the start of the year into that as long as I follow the yearly regiment that they ask us to do. I also dropped Dental, since periodic cleanings were much cheaper than having to pay the monthly rate. If something did come up, the HSA would cover it. Basically, my insurance blows, and doesn't cover anything, so I have a savings account dedicated to medical costs. We are not in the same boat, and I couldn't convince you that this would be cheaper for you, at least not yet. Should your employer change their policies though, you might wish there was a single payer option.
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Oh, the "if (fill in the blank)" excuse.

Good for ME.

What about those who don't contribute to the system you support. Do they still get coverage? Who pays for that if they can't?
 
CFM said:
Oh, the "if (fill in the blank)" excuse.

Good for ME.

What about those who don't contribute to the system you support. Do they still get coverage? Who pays for that if they can't?
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Of course they would get coverage. You don't just fall out of the system if you lose your job, and those that don't provide now still can not be turned away. I don't get what you mean by the 'If (fill in the blank) excuse', as it's all just a big if now. Nothing is set in stone on how it would work, and your current situation could change at any moment as well. Either way, in order to keep your rates the same but still provide a single payer system, the proposal would need to include the ability for your employer to provide for your portion of the burden. At that point, then it would be up to your employer to continue handling your healthcare expense, and things wouldn't change for you financially.
 
DigitalDave said:
Of course they would get coverage. You don't just fall out of the system if you lose your job, and those that don't provide now still can not be turned away. I don't get what you mean by the 'If (fill in the blank) excuse', as it's all just a big if now. Nothing is set in stone on how it would work, and your current situation could change at any moment as well. Either way, in order to keep your rates the same but still provide a single payer system, the proposal would need to include the ability for your employer to provide for your portion of the burden. At that point, then it would be up to your employer to continue handling your healthcare expense, and things wouldn't change for you financially.
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The "if (fill in the blank)" excuse is nothing more than the doom and gloom those supporting government run healthcare use to try and scare people.

So someone not paying should still get coverage? No thanks. We have enough freeloaders now that demand someone else provide for them. Fuck them if they can't pay. Send YOU the bill.
 
CFM said:
The "if (fill in the blank)" excuse is nothing more than the doom and gloom those supporting government run healthcare use to try and scare people.

So someone not paying should still get coverage? No thanks. We have enough freeloaders now that demand someone else provide for them. Fuck them if they can't pay. Send YOU the bill.
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What you call 'doom and gloom', I call reality. Your employer is providing for you now, but they don't have to. They also don't need to provide employment to you. There is nothing in this statement that isn't true. You can go ahead and ignore that fact while you are sitting pretty with them, but reality is if healthcare continues to become increasingly expensive, they will continue to have to re-evaluate their stance on providing so much of their employees health cost.

Define "freeloaders", from your point of view.
 
CFM said:
Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
Stop babbling and deal with the reality. The insurance company was going to raise your rates AS AN REGULAR PRACTICE BEFORE THE ACA BECAME A TWINKLE IN THE CONGRESSIONAL EYE. If there were NO government oversight or regulation in healthcare, you'd have a series of corruption and incompetence that would make the current situation pale in comparison. Or are you that ignorant to think that the level of healthcare (quality of medicine, practice, care, etc.) all just developed out of the goodness of the hearts of private industry? LEARN YOUR HISTORY, YOU DOLT! Or better yet, check out what Wendell Potter and Dr. Peelo had to say on the subject. Stop wasting everyone's time with your idiotic supposition and conjecture that ignores reality.


And remember, the ACA was the COMPROMISE THE GOP AGREED UPON! Deal with it.
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I deal with reality. I look at people like you who say you care yet the only way you show it is by supporting someone else being forced to fund what you won't do and could do yourselves.

taichiliberal responds:You keep parroting mantras that you cannot prove. Bottom line: you have to PAY to get the ACA, you idiot. that means you have a job (the exception being if your plan covers kids, then you can keep yours on until 26). If you can point out where the ACA grants healthcare to the unemployed in general, I'd like to see it. If not, then you're just another brain dead GOP sycophant in repetition mode.
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Since no GOP members in either house voted for it, your claim that they agreed to it is a lie. Deal with being a liar. We both know you are. The thing is I will admit it and you, the lying piece of shit, hide from it.
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Pay attention, stupid....I said that the actual bill was a compromise that the GOP agreed upon.....that the dopes voted lock step against it's passing is a-typical of their idiotic anti-obama ploys that have consistently failed these past 7 years. Here's a more detailed explanation that I hope you will understand (if not, get an adult to explain it to you). http://asociologist.com/2013/10/03/compromise-and-the-affordable-care-act/
 
CFM said:
The "if (fill in the blank)" excuse is nothing more than the doom and gloom those supporting government run healthcare use to try and scare people.

So someone not paying should still get coverage? No thanks. We have enough freeloaders now that demand someone else provide for them. Fuck them if they can't pay. Send YOU the bill.
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Yup, just like I said...

CFM's got his - everyone else can go FUCK themselves!

God will reward your greed and selfishness when you settle up with him.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
Yup, just like I said...

CFM's got his - everyone else can go FUCK themselves!

God will reward your greed and selfishness when you settle up with him.
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Just like I told you retard but you're too stupid to understand, my not wanting to do with what I'VE earned the way you think I should isn't greedy.

YOU can go fuck yourself if you think it's any of your place to dictate how what I did something to earn belongs to anyone of your choosing.

I know you bleeding hearts don't expect some people to earn what they have but God does.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Thessalonians+3&version=MSG
 
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Obamacare has shifted the cost from the poor to the middle class. Before the poor were just left but because they are uninsured. It sucks that the burden has to be somewhere but the reality is that your not going to replace it with anything better. The variables going into the equation are so bad that no matter what you put out it will suck.

The main reason you have high costs is that drug prices are so high. Drug prices are controlled everywhere else but not in America. According to the pharmecuticals the reason is that they can only recoup the cost of developing new drugs in the US because they can charge whatever they want for it while they would not be able to recover the cost in Germany or Britain. In effect we have to pay higher prices because there would be no new medicines in the developed because the other markets are designed to reject paying this. When you develop a new drug it isnt only available in the US its available worldwide as they still make some profit just not enough to recoup costs. In effect we are subsidizing the development costs of the rest of the world.

We need to think of America first and join the rest of the world in putting a cap on drug prices. Thats the only way we can have a decent health system as the costs going into it will not be too high.
 
tsuke said:
Obamacare has shifted the cost from the poor to the middle class. Before the poor were just left but because they are uninsured. It sucks that the burden has to be somewhere but the reality is that your not going to replace it with anything better. The variables going into the equation are so bad that no matter what you put out it will suck.

The main reason you have high costs is that drug prices are so high. Drug prices are controlled everywhere else but not in America. According to the pharmecuticals the reason is that they can only recoup the cost of developing new drugs in the US because they can charge whatever they want for it while they would not be able to recover the cost in Germany or Britain. In effect we have to pay higher prices because there would be no new medicines in the developed because the other markets are designed to reject paying this. When you develop a new drug it isnt only available in the US its available worldwide as they still make some profit just not enough to recoup costs. In effect we are subsidizing the development costs of the rest of the world.

We need to think of America first and join the rest of the world in putting a cap on drug prices. Thats the only way we can have a decent health system as the costs going into it will not be too high.
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You are correct in that we subsidize medicines for the rest of the world. Not sure how you think imposing price controls here will be the answer unless of course you are completely satisfied with the current medications and don't wish for new developments .

Wait, I forgot. The government will "invest" in drug development like they do alternative energy because that is working out so well.
 
Taichiliberal said:
Pay attention, stupid....I said that the actual bill was a compromise that the GOP agreed upon.....that the dopes voted lock step against it's passing is a-typical of their idiotic anti-obama ploys that have consistently failed these past 7 years. Here's a more detailed explanation that I hope you will understand (if not, get an adult to explain it to you). http://asociologist.com/2013/10/03/compromise-and-the-affordable-care-act/
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If the GOP agreed to it, they would have voted for it. That's what a compromise means. That you make excuses for Obama isn't my fault. Someone should explain to you that those good at making excuses are not good for anything else and you make plenty of them. Get your mommy to explain it to you. She raised you to be an idiot. It's her job to stop it now.
 
tsuke said:
Obamacare has shifted the cost from the poor to the middle class. Before the poor were just left but because they are uninsured. It sucks that the burden has to be somewhere but the reality is that your not going to replace it with anything better. The variables going into the equation are so bad that no matter what you put out it will suck.

The main reason you have high costs is that drug prices are so high. Drug prices are controlled everywhere else but not in America. According to the pharmecuticals the reason is that they can only recoup the cost of developing new drugs in the US because they can charge whatever they want for it while they would not be able to recover the cost in Germany or Britain. In effect we have to pay higher prices because there would be no new medicines in the developed because the other markets are designed to reject paying this. When you develop a new drug it isnt only available in the US its available worldwide as they still make some profit just not enough to recoup costs. In effect we are subsidizing the development costs of the rest of the world.

We need to think of America first and join the rest of the world in putting a cap on drug prices. Thats the only way we can have a decent health system as the costs going into it will not be too high.
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I have a better proposal. I pay/provide mine, you pay/provide yours and anyone else's you feel compelled to provide.
 
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