The bible

[PostmodernProphet]

Bart Ehrman, PhD, professor of religion University of North Carolina Chapel Hill

thanks for confirming my comment....

Most of my scholarship during the first twenty years of my career was in textual criticism

https://religion.unc.edu/_people/full-time-faculty/ehrman/

the "historical Jesus" heresy......not Christian scholars, but anti-Christian scholars are your authority.......


textual criticism is the "critical race theory" of religion......reject everything history has taught us because its false......replace it with the assumptions of people alive today because, you know, they're smarter........

 

[Saint Guinefort]

and yet those were not the first copies

Unfortunately for you they are the EARLIEST copies. We do not have anything earlier to my knowledge. CERTAINLY not full copies anywhere.

......the were just fragment of the oldest......and there were complete copies that had been made of the originals, and copies of copies, generation after generation

None of which survive. Ergo you have no evidence for your contention. QED.

....at the time the canon meetings were held

That's a cartoon view of how the Canon came together. If you actually DID have a Masters in Theology you'd know it took a very long time and it coalesced from a wide variety of traditions extending well into the next century after Christ.

pretty much EVERY church had a copy of the gospel that they had ATTRIBUTED to the authorship of John since the church was started in the first century by the contemporaries of Jesus Christ

Then you will have no problem providing evidence of that claim. Oh, sorry, I forgot: you don't do evidence.

and then, in the 1930s some fuckwitted German who lost his faith decided he knew Jesus better than they did......because was going to imagine an historical Jesus he found acceptable........and you are stupid enough to believe him.......

Wow. You have such a simpleton view of Christianity and its history it's hard to take ANYTHING you say seriously.

But since you have shown yourself to be somewhat "loosey goosey" with the truth I guess that is on brand for you.

 

[Cypress]

thanks for confirming my comment....


https://religion.unc.edu/_people/full-time-faculty/ehrman/

the "historical Jesus" heresy......not Christian scholars, but anti-Christian scholars are your authority.......


textual criticism is the "critical race theory" of religion......reject everything history has taught us because its false......replace it with the assumptions of people alive today because, you know, they're smarter........

Professor Bart Ehrman didn't go to a rinky dink bible school.

He has a PhD and a Masters of Divinity from Princeton University theological seminary.

 

[Saint Guinefort]

Professor Bart Ehrman didn't go to a rinky dink bible school.

He has a PhD and a Masters of Divinity from Princeton University theological seminary.

Ehrman is a great author. I've got a few of his books. He takes a very moderate stance overall. I really like his stuff.

 

[Cypress]

Ehrman is a great author. I've got a few of his books. He takes a very moderate stance overall. I really like his stuff.

He is a scholar on a quest for truth, not dogma.

He even puts militant atheists in their place, by explaining the evidence to them that a historical Jesus most likely did exist.

 

[Saint Guinefort]

Professor Bart Ehrman didn't go to a rinky dink bible school.

He has a PhD and a Masters of Divinity from Princeton University theological seminary.

Remember: @PostmodernProphet claims to have a Masters in Theology. Look at his posts. He doesn't seem to understand the difference between periods, commas and ellipses. If he has a Masters degree you can be guaranteed it is from a rinky dink mail-order diploma mill. It's shameful

 

[saltydancin]

Ehrman is a great author. I've got a few of his books. He takes a very moderate stance overall. I really like his stuff.

Modernize a 600 to 800 years in the making fabricated misnomer in order for Islam human reproduction medical pseudoscience to set precedent in Mohammed pedophilia to have Christiananlity pedophilia fabricate misnomers under color of law in order to facilitate that Peter Principle pyramid scheme survival of the fittest fascists 9/11 Islam "death to the infidels" more perfect union to "serve the Pope or die" for a second coming in a thieving US Constitution Bill of Rights - old glory - old testament - absentee voting ballots arsonists Fourth Reich July tradition of "one nation under God with equal justice under law" must be biblical.....

 

[Ross Dolan]

He is a scholar on a quest for truth, not dogma.

He even puts militant atheists in their place, by explaining the evidence to them that a historical Jesus most likely did exist.

Tough call. And it really does not matter, because someone (or some group) back then thought the thoughts that have been handed down. "The thoughts" are the important element. Whether there was a single individual named Jesus...or if Jesus was an amalgam of several people is almost incidental...except to those who want to have a living god.

The ancient Egyptians were into that...as were the relatively modern Japanese.

The thoughts ask people to love one another, to be kind, not to judge, not to treasure worldly goods.

Ya know...all the things that are so important to today's American Christians.

 

[Cypress]

Remember: @PostmodernProphet claims to have a Masters in Theology. Look at his posts. He doesn't seem to understand the difference between periods, commas and ellipses. If he has a Masters degree you can be guaranteed it is from a rinky dink mail-order diploma mill. It's shameful

I"ll take him at his word that he apparently went to some little bible school. But he also confessed that the students were threatened with eternal damnation if they did not accept whatever conservative Protestant dogma was being taught.

Ehrman, and others who go to America's great theological seminaries at Princeton, Harvard, Yale are rigorously taught to think independently and critically. You can't get through an Ivy League seminary without learning at least four or five languages, learning the skills of literary criticism, and being steeped in history, philosophy, and ethics.

 

[Saint Guinefort]

Modernize a 600 to 800 years in the making fabricated misnomer in order for Islam human reproduction medical pseudoscience to set precedent in Mohammed pedophilia to have Christiananlity pedophilia fabricate misnomers under color of law in order to facilitate that Peter Principle pyramid scheme survival of the fittest fascists 9/11 Islam "death to the infidels" more perfect union to "serve the Pope or die" for a second coming in a thieving US Constitution Bill of Rights - old glory - old testament - absentee voting ballots arsonists Fourth Reich July tradition of "one nation under God with equal justice under law" must be biblical.....

It appears the Markov Chain text generator is broken.

 

[Saint Guinefort]

I"ll take him at his word that he apparently went to some little bible school.

I have a friend who got her PhD from Biola. She knows how to write like an adult. So I'm reluctant to give @PostmodernProphet the benefit of the doubt. If he has a Masters in anything it was a mail order diploma mill.

Ehrman, and others who go to America's great theological seminaries at Princeton, Harvard, Yale are rigorously taught to think independently and critically. You can't get through an Ivy League seminary without learning at least four or five languages, learning the skills of literary criticism, and being steeped in history, philosophy, and ethics.

Yeah, PMP appears to lack any actual technical skill in any of the associated disciplines.

 

[Cypress]

Tough call. And it really does not matter, because someone (or some group) back then thought the thoughts that have been handed down. "The thoughts" are the important element. Whether there was a single individual named Jesus...or if Jesus was an amalgam of several people is almost incidental...except to those who want to have a living god.

The ancient Egyptians were into that...as were the relatively modern Japanese.

The thoughts ask people to love one another, to be kind, not to judge, not to treasure worldly goods.

Ya know...all the things that are so important to today's American Christians.

That's my take on it as well.

I don't think of the Gospels as a literal history, and an eyewitness account of the facts.

They are probably stories intended to capture the rudimentary essence of an obscure Jewish mystic from the backwater province of Galilee. And they probably were written around 70 to 100 AD, just after the first generation of eyewitness disciples and apostles had died out to capture this essence in written form so it wouldn't be forgotten.

 

[Cypress]

I have a friend who got her PhD from Biola. She knows how to write like an adult. So I'm reluctant to give @PostmodernProphet the benefit of the doubt. If he has a Masters in anything it was a mail order diploma mill.



Yeah, PMP appears to lack any actual technical skill in any of the associated disciplines.

My basic impression is that there is a huge difference between a little bible college, and the Divinity schools at Harvard, Yale, University of Chicago.

Little private bible schools are probably treadmill factories intended to turn a profit and churn out graduates who are instructed and inculcated in conservative Protestant dogma.

A Divinity school education at Yale or Princeton is a graduate level program of rigorous religious scholarship, and there is no possibility of graduation unless one has become fluent in Greek, Latin, Hebrew and demostrates mastery in literary criticism, philosophy, and ancient history.

 

[Cypress]

“The four New Testament Gospels were all written anonymously: Only later did Christians claim that they had been produced by apostles. None of them, however, appears to be an eyewitness report.” --> Bart Ehrman, PhD, professor of religion University of North Carolina Chapel Hill

“The author of the Gospel of Luke says that he has put together his account from earlier sources. He addresses someone named Theophilus, and never specifically identifies himself as Luke. In fact, none of the earliest manuscripts of any of the four gospels indicates who wrote them; the names Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were attached to the gospels in the 2nd century.” --> Grant Hardy, PhD, professor of religious studies, UNC Asheville

Luke Timothy Johnson is a religious scholar, practicing Catholic, and former Benedictine monk, and even he acknowledges that the true authorship of the gospels is essentially based on guesswork:

The canonical Gospels are given titles in the manuscripts: “the good news according to X”: It is natural to ask about the authors and the circumstances in which they wrote. The ancient approach was through authorship, relying on traditions found in patristic writings. A 2nd-century figure named Papias averred that Matthew wrote fi rst in the Hebrew dialect and was translated by others; Mark is a translation of the preaching of Peter. In the (probably) late-2nd-century Muratorian Canon, Luke is identified as a physician and companion of Paul, while John is the Beloved Disciple of the Fourth Gospel and the Seer on Mt. Patmos.

The problem with this approach is that identifications are based on guesswork, they have a strong apologetic interest—connecting evangelists to apostles—and they don’t help in actually interpreting the Gospels.

They also make even more acute the question of diversity in the accounts: John and Matthew are both supposed to be eyewitnesses, yet their Gospels are least alike!

--> Luke Timothy Johnson, professor of religious studies, Emory University

 

[Into the Night]

Soooooo, would you say that people who have no evidence one way or the other might operate on faith? What say you Frankie four-putt?

Evidence exists for both positions, contrary as they are.

 

[Saint Guinefort]

Evidence exists for both positions, contrary as they are.

What is the strongest single bit of evidence for the existence of any god?

 

[Into the Night]

Frank is an idiot and he wasn't talking about reality, he was trying to fling shit he's not smart enough to fling.

Yeah. Frank is an idiot and he likes to fling shit. But Frank's reality IS his reality, just as your reality is your reality.

 

[Into the Night]

And the militant atheists have called me a bible thumper. I am probably one of the few genuine agnostics here because I take flak from both extremes.

Whenever I felt the Christian traditions was being unfairly caricatured and stereotyped contrary to the historical record, I guarantee you I have done a vastly superior job of defending the Christian tradition than you ever have.

Christianity is not a tradition. It is a religion.

 

[Into the Night]

those of you who are blind make blind guesses.........

Everyone is blind in this respect.

 

[Into the Night]

“The four New Testament Gospels were all written anonymously: Only later did Christians claim that they had been produced by apostles. None of them, however, appears to be an eyewitness report.” --> Bart Ehrman, PhD, professor of religion University of North Carolina Chapel Hill

“The author of the Gospel of Luke says that he has put together his account from earlier sources. He addresses someone named Theophilus, and never specifically identifies himself as Luke. In fact, none of the earliest manuscripts of any of the four gospels indicates who wrote them; the names Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were attached to the gospels in the 2nd century.” --> Grant Hardy, PhD, professor of religious studies, UNC Asheville

Circular argument fallacy (fundamentalism). False authority fallacy. Attempted proof by void.