Melchizedek = Michael
Verified User
I claim to be chosen,against my will.
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The bible
- Thread starter Scott
- Start date
I claim to be chosen,against my will.
Melchizedek = Michael
Verified User
Right.
But not atheist either.
You claimed many religious scholars atheists.
To me, five or ten percent isn't many. That means a few.
'Many' to me means 25, 35, 40 percent of religious scholars are atheists. I would like to know where you get those numbers.
If you're not a believer ,you're an atheist because you don't believe, no matter how much of a Bible scholar you pretend to be.
Saint Guinefort
Verified User
So you're telling God he has to do things the way You think he should! Good luck with that
Nah, God gonna do what God gonna do. But if I am asked to worship something that I have absolutely NO EVIDENCE for I would very much like for that being to be rational in some way.
Melchizedek = Michael
Verified User
Unless you are a Marcionite (a heresy) you will have to accept that the God of the Old Testament is the same as the God of the New Testament and by extension Jesus himself. I trust you adhere to the Nicene Creed.
That means that YOUR GOD, the one who died for your sins upon his incarnation as his only begotten son, also DEMANDED a genocide. He, through his prophet, Samuel, demanded the SLAUGHTER OF INNOCENT CHILDREN AND NON-COMBATANT AMALEKITES. But that wasn't his only murder spree. He constantly handed town after town over to Joshua and his band to slaughter and murder and kill so that they might have their land.
THAT is your God. It is 100% your God. And as such YOU NEED TO EXPLAIN IT.
Go ahead, make a special pleading for "old testament times"...then tell us why genocide was OK then but not OK now. Why your God who so loved the world would command children be murdered by Saul.
And when Saul failed to murder EVERY LIVING THING of Amalek God turned away from Saul to punish him.
Now you know a Bible story. I would highly recommend you read the BIble some time.
Again I can't answer for God,or old testament times.
But an a atheist ,doesn't that mean you don't believe
1 Sam 15:3 even happened, that the Bible is written by man,not written by God through the Prophets?
If you're not a believer ,you're an atheist because you don't believe, no matter how much of a Bible scholar you pretend to be.
So you have no evidence for your claim that many religious scholars are atheists.
BTW, it is only in the Protestant tradition that holds the bible is completely inerrant, the bible should be read strictly literally, and the bible is the one and only source of religious truth and authority.
Most Americans do not know this, but Protestants are only a minority in world Christianity
Saint Guinefort
Verified User
I claim to be chosen,against my will.
I said that because of Luke 6:31. You suggested that I only "claim" to be an atheist. So that indicated to me that you also only "claim" to be a Christian.
Again, please read the Bible some time.
Melchizedek = Michael
Verified User
Nah, God gonna do what God gonna do. But if I am asked to worship something that I have absolutely NO EVIDENCE for I would very much like for that being to be rational in some way.
But you don't believe God exists as an atheist.
But it sounds more like you Are a believer ,but are pissed off at God,for not personally explaining to you why he has done things they way YOU think he should.
Melchizedek = Michael
Verified User
I said that because of Luke 6:31. You suggested that I only "claim" to be an atheist. So that indicated to me that you also only "claim" to be a Christian.
Again, please read the Bible some time.
You want me to read the Bible,but as an atheist, you believe it's fiction.
Saint Guinefort
Verified User
But you don't believe God exists as an atheist.
Correct.
But it sounds more like you Are a believer ,but are pissed off at God,for not personally explaining to you why he has done things they way YOU think he should.
Incorrect. I sought God. I did what I could for decades to "feel" that presence. And unless I can "feel" God's presence, or see evidence of his presence, then worshiping him becomes nearly impossible. At the very least it would be an "empty" faith if I didn't REALLY believe in God but just mouthed the words because I was supposed to.
My faith journey is actually far more complex than the oversimplifications that believers desperately want it to be. This is how I wind up knowing more about your faith than you do.
What if I suggested your faith was nothing more than you toeing a line someone told you to toe. That would be insulting. It would automatically denigrate your thoughts and beliefs. In all reality I am actually HAPPY you are a believer. If it brings you joy and makes your life better, that's great! It's exactly what is supposed to happen. That's what faith is for. It didn't work that way for me.
Now, I'm MORE THAN HAPPY to talk theology. I find few CHristians who care enough about their faith to also be willing (or they are scared that information that speaks against their beliefs will cause them to lose their beliefs).
Saint Guinefort
Verified User
You want me to read the Bible,but as an atheist, you believe it's fiction.
Luke 6:31 is perfectly legitimate. It's GOOD ADVICE. There's actually a LOT of good stuff in the Bible. And a lot of truly horrible stuff.
I read fiction. I can even get deep insights into life from fiction.
Honestly, read the Bible. Give it a shot. It's interesting but there are parts that it's a chore (I'm looking at Numbers here). But it will give you reason to reflect on your faith and it will ease your conversation with atheists like me who are far more familiar with the Bible than you are.
If you're not a believer ,you're an atheist because you don't believe, no matter how much of a Bible scholar you pretend to be.
I never claimed to be a scholar, I just asked you what the source of data you had that showed 'many', aka 25, 30,40 percent of religious scholars are atheists.
Melchizedek = Michael
Verified User
So you have no evidence for your claim that many religious scholars are atheists.
BTW, it is only in the Protestant tradition that holds the bible is completely inerrant, the bible should be read strictly literally, and the bible is the one and only source of religious truth and authority.
Most Americans do not know this, but Protestants are only a minority in world Christianity
You're hopelessly caught up in the structure of organized religion, blinding you from a personal relationship with God thru the Holy Spirit!
Organized religion won't lead you to God!
That's why Jesus warned "Many come in my name but they aren't mine" .
Being Protestant,Catholic,Baptist whatever in No Way makes you a Christian!
Only those with the Holy Spirit are true Christians
Saint Guinefort
Verified User
Again I can't answer for God,or old testament times.
Safer to just ignore it.
1 Sam 15:3 even happened, that the Bible is written by man,not written by God through the Prophets?
If you try to recraft that sentence perhaps I can answer it. Thanks.
(Definitely read the Bible. You will learn a lot more about your faith.)
Melchizedek = Michael
Verified User
I never claimed to be a scholar, I just asked you what the source of data you had that showed 'many', aka 25, 30,40 percent of religious scholars are atheists.
Ever scholar who doesn't have the Holy Spirit isn't a Christian or a scholar
Melchizedek = Michael
Verified User
Safer to just ignore it.
If you try to recraft that sentence perhaps I can answer it. Thanks.
(Definitely read the Bible. You will learn a lot more about your faith.)
If you're an atheist then 1 Sam 15:3 never happened, that's what being an atheist means.
Melchizedek = Michael
Verified User
Safer to just ignore it.
If you try to recraft that sentence perhaps I can answer it. Thanks.
(Definitely read the Bible. You will learn a lot more about your faith.)
I think you mean,read the Bible so I can use your spin !
As an atheist, isn't the Bible a novel like the book of Mormon?
You're hopelessly caught up in the structure of organized religion, blinding you from a personal relationship with God thru the Holy Spirit!
Organized religion won't lead you to God!
That's why Jesus warned "Many come in my name but they aren't mine" .
Being Protestant,Catholic,Baptist whatever in No Way makes you a Christian!
Only those with the Holy Spirit are true Christians
You can believe the bible is literally true, an accurate accounting of history and events if you want.
That is a decidedly minority view in world Christianity.
I think the founder of Christianity, Paul, founded and organized churches because the Christian life was supposed to be about community.
I really don't get the sense of tranquility and transcendence sitting in a lazy boy recliner and scanning Deuteronomy, that I get in a beautiful Catholic or Eastern Orthodox cathedral.
I think the bible is meant to be metaphor, allegory, and parable. I don't think it's an insult to Jesus to believe that. Jesus famously talked in parable.
Saint Guinefort
Verified User
If you're an atheist then 1 Sam 15:3 never happened, that's what being an atheist means.
But presumably as a believer YOU BELIEVE IT DID. Am I correct?
What if someone who is seeking God comes to YOU, a believer, and says "Defender, I'm having trouble understanding God's actions in 1 Sam 15:3" how do you answer it?
It doesn't sound like you could answer it.
Saint Guinefort
Verified User
I think you mean,read the Bible so I can use your spin !
No, it just feels like you haven't read it AT ALL.
As an atheist, isn't the Bible a novel like the book of Mormon?
Yup. Very much like it. When you read the Book of MOrmon and know the history of how it came about it's patently obvious it is the work of human hands and as flawed as a human work would be. The Bible is much the same! It contains difficult passages that are more easily explained by the hand of man than some exegetical arabesque on God.
If I told you that a talking snake just tried to lure me into hell would you believe me? Or would you assume I simply made it up?
If I told you God's prophet told me to punch you in the face, would you gladly accept it? Would you allow me to punch you in the face? If not, why not?
Melchizedek = Michael
Verified User
You can believe the bible is literally true, an accurate accounting of history and events if you want.
That is a decidedly minority view in world Christianity.
I think the founder of Christianity, Paul, founded and organized churches because the Christian life was supposed to be about community.
I really don't get the sense of tranquility and transcendence sitting in a lazy boy recliner and scanning Deuteronomy, that I get in a beautiful Catholic or Eastern Orthodox cathedral.
I think the bible is meant to be metaphor, allegory, and parable. I don't think it's an insult to Jesus to believe that. Jesus famously talked in parable.
FYI most of what you call "world Christianity" aren't Christian!
Paul spread Christianity to save souls!
Things have changed in the last 2000years!
Now organized Christianity is social clubs,Money making Corporations, have nothing to do with true Christianity besides in name!
"Many come in my name but they aren't mine"