The Big O Happy Dance

[Damocles]

I object to your oversimplified generalizations that are flat out false, as most generalizations are. Maybe YOU were in the dog house or maybe you're friends were in the doghouse, but that does not hold true for everyone.

*sigh*

You object because you are taking it personally. Yes, it was a generalization (purposefully so) and wrong often because of that, but it was more often right than not.

Even Darla speaks of having to leave and go off with the women in her party rather than hang with the guys amazed how the other men did nothing....

I think you are more upset because it was more accurate than you want it to be.

 

[Damocles]

You're not helping damo.

everyone knows about your love for ahem....film.

I think you confuse me with the wackster..

 

[Cancel7]

lol

that was funny.

No but there’s a lot of truth in what Solitary said. When I came out of redacted, and was finally able to tell my bf, who couldn’t be at the fundraiser, about it, and how I felt and what some of the guys said, and he was like “those assholes” and he just totally got it, the complete and utter inhumanity of the act, and how horrifying that could be…then that made me feel that much closer to him.

 

[Topspin]

Compared to Halley Angella is a hag and is Playa hatin. She's calling it porn because the guy is a CRACKER. you to bacCRACKERHATA. Angela has rock sexier scene's than that more than once. Ahh once with a guy a little older than her son. THE PEDAPHILE!!! LOFL

 

[Cancel7]

*sigh*

You object because you are taking it personally. Yes, it was a generalization (purposefully so) and wrong often because of that, but it was more often right than not.

Even Darla speaks of having to leave and go off with the women in her party rather than hang with the guys amazed how the other men did nothing....

I think you are more upset because it was more accurate than you want it to be.

But it never made me hate men, and when I got home and could talk to my bf about it, he wasn’t in the doghouse Damo. Far from it.

So Tiana is right, YOU might have been in the doghouse, but that’s a commentary on your situation, and maybe on you, but not on women or on men.

 

[LadyT]

Just means we have different perspectives of what is pornography .. but it doesn't mean anger at each other should be any part of the equation.

I say again, Angela Bassett and a lot of women saw it as pornography.

I'm not angry. Just offended that men see a portrait of female strength as a knock against men.

 

[Damocles]

But it never made me hate men, and when I got home and could talk to my bf about it, he wasn’t in the doghouse Damo. Far from it.

So Tiana is right, YOU might have been in the doghouse, but that’s a commentary on your situation, and maybe on you, but not on women or on men.

I didn't say it made anybody "hate men". I said it made them temporarily angry. The men were in the "dog house", not suddenly turned into hated monsters that no woman would love. This movie effected people. Even you.

How many men have been in the dog house, yet were not hated? I'd say every danged man alive has spent some time there. Being in the dog house certainly isn't the same thing as a man being hated.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I just don't like Oprah. I can't help it. Dr. Phil doesn't help matters.

That is likely because Dr. Phil is a giant tool.

As far as Oprah is concerned... she has a great mind for business, she is a leader and likely the best self-marketer in history. On my list of best entrepenuers of all time, she rivals Walton and Gates.... and for a black woman that means she had to work three times as hard to accomplish what she did.

 

[LadyT]

*sigh*

You object because you are taking it personally. Yes, it was a generalization (purposefully so) and wrong often because of that, but it was more often right than not.
Even Darla speaks of having to leave and go off with the women in her party rather than hang with the guys amazed how the other men did nothing....

I think you are more upset because it was more accurate than you want it to be.

No. It wasn't the norm.


and for the record, she ultimately went off to with her 'man'.

 

[blackascoal]

No one is saying the movie was conventional or even that Berry's character's actions were reasonable or even understandable.

No, Angela Bassett doesn't hate women. But she like you are wrong in calling it Pono.

Question: do you think that all movies with s ex scene in them are considered pono graphic?

No my sister, I do not.

I like sex and sex in movies, but that isn't the point. "Debbie Does Dallas" didn't win an Oscar.

Consider this perspective .. written by a black woman .. that I pretty much agree with.

In the movie, Berry is evicted from her home for failure to make rent. And despite the obvious presence of black males throughout the movie (the sheriff who evicts her, Mos Def's pointless cameo) Berry apparently has no friends or family in the area who can help her move her stuff somewhere else. Instead, she relies on Thornton to help her move into his house. Soon, they begin a sexual relationship, but here, another major difference between the white male perspective and black female spectatorship emerges.

In previous Oscar-nominated roles where the character was defined by her sexuality (The Apartment, Leaving Las Vegas, Pretty Woman) the women were used as much for on-screen objectification as they were for in-movie appreciation. Here we see sex as a way to arouse the audience, and even though these roles are literal prostitutes, white males feel they are merely their sexual equals, not judging their craft or their motivations. In Monster's Ball, we have a completely different dynamic.

Here, Halle is not a literal prostitute, but Thornton showers her with gifts after he starts his relationship with her, even though he shows racist tendencies (both in his stereotypically backwoods father played by Peter Boyle, and his treatment of a black corrections officer) before meeting her. This relationship is not defined by its eroticism. Instead, it shows a white man empowering himself through control of a vulnerable woman. This is even more demeaning than sex as business; here we sex as slavery and sex as control.

Perhaps a third and final point will sink this home. At the beginning of the film, we have a grieving (and very attractive) wife and a racist (and rather average) corrections officer. By the end of the picture, the officer has all but laid claim to the wife and her sexual prowess and has essentially brought her into his house as an inferior to be propped up by him. This is the uplifting racial enlightenment of the 21st century? Slave-master dynamics amidst weepy histrionics? Even if you feel that this is perhaps a harsh judgment of the film, there is little arguing about the facts of the film itself. Now compare this judgment to some of the national reviews given to this picture:

A great film. Considers genuine personalities and extreme feelings, and lingers in the mind, holding some kind of spell over us long after it has ended.

It's not a polemic on the death penalty, race relations or family dynamics. It's a character study that really sticks with you.

Disturbing, provocative and, finally, tentatively encouraging, Monster's Ball brings subtlety and quiet conviction to the kind of story routinely exploited on the big screen.

It's almost as if they were watching a totally separate movie.

When Angela Basset talks about refusing to prostitute herself for this role, she isn't talking about the role itself. She is making a point of fact that this role indeed is Oscar material - but for all of the wrong reasons. Berry made nearly $1 million for the picture, and her Oscar guaranteed her a role in the new James Bond film Die Another Day, as well as other major studio roles in the years ahead. Did Berry sell out her principles for a role by lying to herself about its true motivations and objectives?

If you sit down to watch this - for the first time or again - try to imagine it from a black woman's perspective. It is simply an outrageous and emasculating film, disguised as an elegant character study. Shame on Ms. Berry for ensuring that this type of role will linger on long into the future, and shame on Hollywood for propagating such offensive and immature roles for black women to win ham-fisted golden statuettes at the expense of their people and their pride."

Monster's Ball and Berry took a lot of heat from the black community. There were far superior roles for black women that were Oscar-worthy.

 

[LadyT]

I didn't say it made anybody "hate men". I said it made them temporarily angry. The men were in the "dog house", not suddenly turned into hated monsters that no woman would love. This movie effected people. Even you.

How many men have been in the dog house, yet were not hated? I'd say every danged man alive has spent some time there.

Can you expand on 'dog house'. Exactly what did teh women in your life do to you after they saw the movie?

 

[Cancel7]

I didn't say it made anybody "hate men". I said it made them temporarily angry. The men were in the "dog house", not suddenly turned into hated monsters.

How many men have been in the dog house, yet were not hated? I'd say every danged man alive has spent some time there.

Damo, the very idea that you believe that any movie could universally make women put men in “the doghouse” is extremely immature of you, and doesn’t speak well of your rapport in your own male/female relationships.

But you are diverting attention from Tiana’s main point, and I am allowing you to do so. Forget the movie I mentioned, which was a film about one of the most violent and notorious acts committed in the war. The Color Purple is a different film, and Tiana’s point is that you can make a film about strong women without it being male-bashing. And I look forward to seeing the film so that I can see what all the hubbub is about.

 

[Cancel7]

That is likely because Dr. Phil is a giant tool.

As far as Oprah is concerned... she has a great mind for business, she is a leader and likely the best self-marketer in history. On my list of best entrepenuers of all time, she rivals Walton and Gates.... and for a black woman that means she had to work three times as hard to accomplish what she did.

Agreed.

 

[LadyT]

That is likely because Dr. Phil is a giant tool.

As far as Oprah is concerned... she has a great mind for business, she is a leader and likely the best self-marketer in history. On my list of best entrepenuers of all time, she rivals Walton and Gates.... and for a black woman that means she had to work three times as hard to accomplish what she did.

1) Dr. Phil is monumental tool. I don't think there's a bigger tool than him on TV

2) And yes, Oprah is one of the best entrepenuers of all time.

 

[Damocles]

Can you expand on 'dog house'. Exactly what did teh women in your life do to you after they saw the movie?

I think it makes them a bit angry for a bit. Darla's example of needing some time away was a very good example of what I was talking about. Whether she wanted it to be or not. That was the effect I saw more than once. It effects those that it effects most deeply and at a personal level that way.

 

[blackascoal]

That is likely because Dr. Phil is a giant tool.

As far as Oprah is concerned... she has a great mind for business, she is a leader and likely the best self-marketer in history. On my list of best entrepenuers of all time, she rivals Walton and Gates.... and for a black woman that means she had to work three times as hard to accomplish what she did.

I totally agree with that.

 

[Damocles]

Damo, the very idea that you believe that any movie could universally make women put men in “the doghouse” is extremely immature of you, and doesn’t speak well of your rapport in your own male/female relationships.

But you are diverting attention from Tiana’s main point, and I am allowing you to do so. Forget the movie I mentioned, which was a film about one of the most violent and notorious acts committed in the war. The Color Purple is a different film, and Tiana’s point is that you can make a film about strong women without it being male-bashing. And I look forward to seeing the film so that I can see what all the hubbub is about.

What it was was a tool to get people talking about a film that more than just interested me, it effected me.

 

[Cancel7]

I think it makes them a bit angry for a bit. Darla's example of needing some time away was a very good example of what I was talking about. Whether she wanted it to be or not. That was the effect I saw more than once. It effects those that it effects most deeply and at a personal level that way.

I went home to my own man Damo, and I already told you how that turned out, you are deliberately twisting my story, while at the same time conflating a film about an actual event of again, notorious sexual violence, with a different film. Knock that shit off.

 

[Damocles]

I went home to my own man Damo, and I already told you how that turned out, you are deliberately twisting my story, while at the same time conflating a film about an actual event of again, notorious sexual violence, with a different film. Knock that shit off.

What part of temporary is difficult for you?

And I said it was an example of the type of "dog house" I was talking about in my original generalization, not that you were reacting to the same film. That kind of reaction, because men in this film were far more often than not depicted at their worst.

 

[LadyT]

..........

Monster's Ball and Berry took a lot of heat from the black community. There were far superior roles for black women that were Oscar-worthy.

Yes. She did take heat for role, I remember. But as far as I can recall, none those sideline critics were paying her bills or offering her roles that would have ultimately landed her an oscar.

Taking your political biases out of the equation, she did a great job in the film.

I'm curious. Exactly what roles would support a Black attress to win an award for? You seem to offer up a lot of pretensious hateration. But I'm curious: what does BAC want to see?

(BTW - this still has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE COLOR PURPLE)