The Big O Happy Dance

[blackascoal]

I'm not angry. Just offended that men see a portrait of female strength as a knock against men.

You've mischaracterized what I said. I've said nothing of the sort.

Everytime I watch Angela Bassett, Cicely Tyson, and even Sanaa Lathan, I see the strength and character of black women. They are selective about the roles they play and are cognizant that Hollywood often wants to portray them as objects.

 

[Cancel3]

I didn't see Thornton's character as anything but a redneck white guy who falls in love with a black woman. He did not prop her up because she was not his equal. He was trying to help a woman thru a grieving process after having lost her son (and her husband?).

Thornton's character was never meant to be an Alan Alda type. But within the limitations of his life experiences, he was trying very hard to treat her well. He did not hide her, which would have been the most obvious thing to do. I doubt he had ever had a decent example of how to treat a woman. Certainly his father hadn't shown him anything in that vein.


Also, Berry's character WAS alone. That was an important part of her vulnerability. If she had had a crowd of friends to help her and support her, Thornton would have just been a nice guy that helped her the night her son died.


I think the movie was fairly true to the characters they portrayed. Perhaps uneducated people on the lower end of the socio-economic scale are not what you want either race to be judged by. But they were the main characters in this movie.

 

[Cancel7]

What part of temporary is difficult for you?

Listen, there was nothing “temporary” about it. I watched a reenactment of a brutal gang rape and mass murder committed by United States Soldiers, and I watched it with United States Soldiers. I am still dealing with those issues.

But, it brought me closer in my own relationship, with, by the way, a former United States Soldier.

Just back off, and for once in your cyber life, admit you were fucking wrong, and stop digging.

 

[LadyT]

I think it makes them a bit angry for a bit. Darla's example of needing some time away was a very good example of what I was talking about. Whether she wanted it to be or not. That was the effect I saw more than once. It effects those that it effects most deeply and at a personal level that way.

WRONGO!

Her feelings were based on the actions of the people that were there. Not the film itself and had she been with other enlightened people (like me) who happen to be men, she would have taken refuge with them (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)

 

[Cancel7]

And I’m really pissed on this damo, and this is for real, that I was trying to talk to Desh about something that I think she hit on, that went beyond one film, and you jumped on it to use against Tiana’s argument. I’m sorry I ever brought that movie up in this particular thread. I’m really pissed at you right now.

 

[Damocles]

WRONGO!

Her feelings were based on the actions of the people that were there. Not the film itself and had she been with other enlightened people (like me) who happen to be men, she would have taken refuge with them (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)

Okay,

It was a generalization. Meant to spawn a conversation. It did that. I still think that it was generally correct because when people saw the movie, and at that time, there were far fewer "enlightened" people.

It's all good, and rather unimportant in the scheme of things.

I think the movie is good, and it is good because it effects people and makes them think. It made me introspective, and mostly because of how the men act in that movie. Which wasn't flattering but was far more realistic of the time than most men today would be comfortable with.

 

[Cancel7]

WRONGO!

Her feelings were based on the actions of the people that were there. Not the film itself and had she been with other enlightened people (like me) who happen to be men, she would have taken refuge with them (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)

Exactly. EXACTLY

 

[blackascoal]

Yes. She did take heat for role, I remember. But as far as I can recall, none those sideline critics were paying her bills or offering her roles that would have ultimately landed her an oscar.

Could you possibly be suggesting it is admirable for women to play any role that "pays their bills" or gets her acknowledged?

Taking your political biases out of the equation, she did a great job in the film.

YOU think so did a great job in the film, I do not.

I'm curious. Exactly what roles would support a Black attress to win an award for? You seem to offer up a lot of pretensious hateration. But I'm curious: what does BAC want to see?

(BTW - this still has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE COLOR PURPLE)

As previously stated, almost any role with Angela Bassett, Cicely Tyson, Sanaa Lathan, Nia Long, or Gabriel Union.

 

[LadyT]

Okay,

It was a generalization. Meant to spawn a conversation. It did that. I still think that it was generally correct because when people saw the movie, and at that time, there were far fewer "enlightened" people.

It's all good, and rather unimportant in the scheme of things.

I think the movie is good, and it is good because it effects people and makes them think. It made me introspective, and mostly because of how the men act in that movie. Which wasn't flattering but was far more realistic of the time than most men today would be comfortable with.

Well aren't you quite the cyber martyr? Putting yourself in the line of fire to facilitate discussion. The next time I say something assinine, I'm going to use that as my excuse too. Its a good one. I'll give you that.

 

[LadyT]

Could you possibly be suggesting it is admirable for women to play any role that "pays their bills" or gets her acknowledged?

No, I'm suggesting that its a lot easier to be sanctimonious from the sidelines when you don't bear any of the responsibility of the outcome.


I'm still waiting for you to tie it in to the core of the Color Purple though.

 

[Cancel7]

Well aren't you quite the cyber martyr? Putting yourself in the line of fire to facilitate discussion. The next time I say something assinine, I'm going to use that as my excuse too. Its a good one. I'll give you that.

I can hear usc snickering now.

 

[LadyT]

I can hear usc snickering now.

where'd that come from?

 

[Cancel7]

where'd that come from?

Because usc always catches Damo doing, what he calls “the crawfish”. Which is, backpeddling.

 

[LadyT]

Because usc always catches Damo doing, what he calls “the crawfish”. Which is, backpeddling.

Its an artform. he usually likes to dice the words of his normally vague posts to be construed as something he clearly didn't mean. its pretty funny.

 

[Damocles]

Well aren't you quite the cyber martyr? Putting yourself in the line of fire to facilitate discussion. The next time I say something assinine, I'm going to use that as my excuse too. Its a good one. I'll give you that.

True. But nobody will believe you, even if you have a record of doing it that way.

It was quite literally a repeat of a generalization I heard on the radio from a black dude that does the movie and food critiques on Saturdays here in CO on the local talk radio stations...

I thought it an interesting generalization, one that would likely spawn a conversation, even if it really was about how wrong I was. That is what debate is about...



Not a real biggie. However, I did mean what I said. In my observation when I watched it, the reaction was much as I described. A temporary doghouse position for many of the men...

Not all that important in the long run. I didn't realize that the movie was that important to some and that their reaction had to be projected onto others and that no observation would be considered at all... It seemed to me that people were over-reacting to a simple generalization.

If people really feel that strongly about it, I'll concede and move on. I don't understand the uber-strong stance about it that you seem wont to project.

 

[Cancel7]

Crawfish Alert!

 

[Cancel3]

Crawfish Alert!

I missed the Louisiana crawfish season this year. No fair teasing me!

 

[blackascoal]

No, I'm suggesting that its a lot easier to be sanctimonious from the sidelines when you don't bear any of the responsibility of the outcome.

I'm still waiting for you to tie it in to the core of the Color Purple though.

First understand that we're talking about different perspectives of movies, and the sometimes difference in perspectives of men and women about the same movie. There shouldn't be any reason to cause anger in those differences.

I'd have ZERO intention of angering you, Darla, or Desh with what I think about a movie. I don't care if the men here get angry about it .. we like bumping heads.

That being said ...

It's not being "sanctimonious", its self-critque. It's what makes us better.

Personally, I'm sick to fucking death of Hollywood Steppin' Fetchit depictions of black life. Monster's Ball was demeaning to me and demeaning to black women .. shared by a great many black women, including my wife, and obviously, the woman whose thoughts I posted. I saw no strength in the character Berry played. All she was is pussy .. a good looking black woman pussy for an average looking white racist man. "Racist" being the point.

Imagine if Angelina Jolie played Berry's role and Cedric the Entertainer played Thorton's role. Imagine Cedric's big ass bouncing on Jolie. Would Hollywood have given an Oscar to that? No way in hell would they have celebrated that. In fact, in spite of how it most often happens in the real world, Hollywood is not too fond of depicting black men with white women .. in truth, black women ain't too fond of it either.

What Hollywood often likes to do is reinforce racist stereotypes and Monster's Ball was full of them .. and in my opinion, so was The Color Purple. Incest, rape, degradation, ignorant black men, and submissive black women as told by a director who has no affinity for black people do not make up my idea of entertainment or enlightenment.

Alice Walker's uber-feminist perspectives all came rushing through in Purple. Frankly, although I recognize that she may be an important writer for women, I have no taste for Walker's work. You may be unaware of this, but Walker believed that children enslaved their mothers .., so she disowned her own daughter. You should read her daughter's own story.

How my mother's fanatical views tore us apart
By Rebecca Walker
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...e-apart-daughter-The-Color-Purple-author.html

I don't deny there is a double standard between black men and women .. but sometimes that door swings both ways. Would it be possible, in all your imagination, for a black man to be known as the quintessential voice of black perspective if he didn't care for black women? Then explain Maya Angelou.

It is simply a matter of taste and perspective. Personally I have alswys enjoyed the works of Sonia Sanchez, Nikki Giovanni, Lorraine Hansberry, and many other black women voices.

Not only didn't I care for Purple, I also don't care for "Roots" .. at least its TV version. It was palatable to the American public, but it was far from the truth of slavery.

This is less men vs women as it is taste vs taste.

Tell me we're still cool.

 

[Cancel7]

You’re not angering me. I have realized over the past two weeks, that debates, even or especially, heated debates, between lefties, are really the only ones worth having or reading.

 

[LadyT]

.....

What Hollywood often likes to do is reinforce racist stereotypes and Monster's Ball was full of them .. and in my opinion, so was The Color Purple. Incest, rape, degradation, ignorant black men, and submissive black women as told by a director who has no affinity for black people do not make up my idea of entertainment or enlightenment.

Alice Walker's uber-feminist perspectives all came rushing through in Purple. Frankly, although I recognize that she may be an important writer for women, I have no taste for Walker's work. You may be unaware of this, but Walker believed that children enslaved their mothers .., so she disowned her own daughter. You should read her daughter's own story.

How my mother's fanatical views tore us apart
By Rebecca Walker
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...e-apart-daughter-The-Color-Purple-author.html

I don't deny there is a double standard between black men and women .. but sometimes that door swings both ways. Would it be possible, in all your imagination, for a black man to be known as the quintessential voice of black perspective if he didn't care for black women? Then explain Maya Angelou.

It is simply a matter of taste and perspective. Personally I have alswys enjoyed the works of Sonia Sanchez, Nikki Giovanni, Lorraine Hansberry, and many other black women voices.

Not only didn't I care for Purple, I also don't care for "Roots" .. at least its TV version. It was palatable to the American public, but it was far from the truth of slavery.

This is less men vs women as it is taste vs taste.

Tell me we're still cool.

Now that's an article that can spark conversation. And probably deserves its own thread. Frankly I don't even know where to begin.

I'll start off with the movie in the original topic itself:

....... and in my opinion, so was The Color Purple. Incest, rape, degradation, ignorant black men, and submissive black women as told by a director who has no affinity for black people do not make up my idea of entertainment or enlightenment.

Before I start, now that I see how you tied to the Color Purple in to MB, don't think I didn't catch your game. We were talking about movies and you just wanted to get your diatribe out about Monsters Ball. Yes. Hollywood praises and perpetuates Black stereotypes and MB certainly had a lot of said stereotypes. Moving on to the Color Purple.

1) I can't speak for others but I didn't incest was something that was attributed to black stereotypes specifically. To be honest, I'd never considered what choices a Black woman or any woman at that time had in terms of refuse. There were no hotlines, rights groups, group homes or watch dog organization to help them. Most of them had to suffer in silence.

2) As for degragation, that was a part of life for all minorities back then. And certainly those who managed to survive through Jim Crowe laws and sexism deserve a voice.

3) I'm not denying that there were ignorant black men in that movie, but there were also good men and men who redeemed themselves i.e. Shug's husband, Lawrence Fishborne's character, etc.

4) Attacking Speilburg is weak, I'm calling Ad-hominem