The Christian Agnostic

Cypress said:
I think there's a cultural context that comes into play. In western traditions, we just tend to be more aware and in tune with the tapestry of the New Testament and it's concepts of the ethical life and moral imperatives.

Somebody who grew up in Southeast Asia might not be a practicing Buddhist, but they could have a cultural affinity for the Mahayana tradition
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True. The common factor is human beings. Human beings have finite abilities and behaviors resulting in a finite range of cultures. It's the commonalities which bind us together.
 
Cypress said:
I never wrote, or even suggested that unattainable knowledge we cannot acquire proves anything about the transcendant.

I am agnostic about it.

It's atheists and holy rollers who leap to conclusions.
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Agreed. Perry is just slinging shit again like a chimp at the zoo.
 
Cypress said:
Asking why the big bang happened, or why the universe seems finely tuned and predictably ordered are not meaningless questions.


They just aren't scientific questions, as best we can ascertain.


Talking about testing these questions against the null hypothesis is what is actually meaningless.
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It's not a matter of why the universe is finely tuned, the universe IS finely tuned which suggests intellect. You know the argument, you dont find a watch and think , wow what a coincidence that the forces of nature precisely combined and made a watch.
 
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Telocollinite said:
But you aren't agnostic about other unanswered questions in your life. I know this for a fact.

There MIGHT be an invisible wall built across the sidewalk you are walking on. You don't know for sure there isn't...it's invisible. Do you still walk apace without worry? It's NOT because you are 100% certain there is no invisible wall across the sidewalk, but you estimate the likelihood as being very near zero and you keep walking quickly without worry.

All you've done in terms of the "big questions" is simply erect a special case where you don't allow yourself to treat the questions the way you do all other questions in your daily life.
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Invisible pink unicorns is a contrived mental construct of the militant atheist.


Here are some important questions which are not contrived:

Nobody knows how the laws of physics came about or why the big bang happened.
^^ Those are actual events and properties of the universe we can observe, but have no underlying explanation.

The strange fact is altering the physical constants just slightly would most likely render a universe where sentient life was not possible. In other words, the universe and it's physical laws seem fine tuned for life.

Why is this? Nobody really knows!


You and the holy rollers have leapt to preconceived conclusions.

I am agnostic about it.

Maybe fine tuning is an extraordinary coincidence.

Or maybe it's pointing to an underlying organizing people in the cosmos we just don't understand and probably never will.
 
Cypress said:
Invisible pink unicorns is a contrived mental construct of the militant atheist.
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No it is not. It is an absurd example, given. But so is an invisible being who lives outside of all space and time and is magical in the extreme and watches people to make sure they don't masturbate.

Nobody knows how the laws of physics came about or why the big bang happened.
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And what insight does YOUR epistemology provide? (Answer: none. No more or less than anyone else's. As such it isn't a very productive question. Questions worthy of seeking answers to, but not opening the door to the supernatural or metaphysical just because they are a mystery.

The strange fact is altering the physical constants just slightly would most likely render a universe where sentient life was not possible. In other words, the universe and it's physical laws seem fine tuned for life.
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That's not strange at all. If those things were different and life didn't arise there would be no life. That's not a mystery. Life's existence is no more "mysterious" than the existence of ulexite or calcium carbonate.

You and the holy rollers have leapt to preconceived conclusions.
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And, again, just decreeing it doesn't make it so. You are quite incorrect as I've shown repeatedly now. Just because you don't like that particular part of science does not make it any less valuable.

I am agnostic about it.
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And that's fine! It means you think the answer CANNOT BE ARRIVED AT. I generally agree on those things like "the big bang" which as evidence for its existence. I do not share that view on things which are indistinguishable from something someone just made up.

God falls in the latter category. I bin him with the invisible pink unicorn. Someone just made up the concept and said it out loud. Doesn't make it necessary to be "agnostic" about. I can easily jettison both concepts as simply made up until I see some evidence of some sort for either one.
Maybe fine tuning is an extraordinary coincidence.

Decry! Sparse pest!
 
Telocollinite said:
No it is not. It is an absurd example, given. But so is an invisible being who lives outside of all space and time and is magical in the extreme and watches people to make sure they don't masturbate.



And what insight does YOUR epistemology provide? (Answer: none. No more or less than anyone else's. As such it isn't a very productive question. Questions worthy of seeking answers to, but not opening the door to the supernatural or metaphysical just because they are a mystery.



That's not strange at all. If those things were different and life didn't arise there would be no life. That's not a mystery. Life's existence is no more "mysterious" than the existence of ulexite or calcium carbonate.



And, again, just decreeing it doesn't make it so. You are quite incorrect as I've shown repeatedly now. Just because you don't like that particular part of science does not make it any less valuable.



And that's fine! It means you think the answer CANNOT BE ARRIVED AT. I generally agree on those things like "the big bang" which as evidence for its existence. I do not share that view on things which are indistinguishable from something someone just made up.

God falls in the latter category. I bin him with the invisible pink unicorn. Someone just made up the concept and said it out loud. Doesn't make it necessary to be "agnostic" about. I can easily jettison both concepts as simply made up until I see some evidence of some sort for either one.
Maybe fine tuning is an extraordinary coincidence.

Decry! Sparse pest!
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your trying to sneak through a strawman fallacy.

You are using the old militant atheist trick of inventing contrived strawman fantasies of invisible leprechauns and polka dotted unicorns.


The Big bang was a real event and the physical laws are real properties of the universe for which an underlying verified explanation eludes science, philosophy, and religion.
 
Cypress said:
your trying to sneak through a strawman fallacy.
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no I'm not. It's called a metaphor.

The Big bang was a real event and the physical laws are real properties of the universe for which an underlying verified explanation eludes science, philosophy, and religion.
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I discussed that very point at some length.
 
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Cypress said:
your trying to sneak through a strawman fallacy.

You are using the old militant atheist trick of inventing contrived strawman fantasies of invisible leprechauns and polka dotted unicorns.


The Big bang was a real event and the physical laws are real properties of the universe for which an underlying verified explanation eludes science, philosophy, and religion.
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Perry, as you know, is a mentally ill troll who likes to post for reactions. My advice is to attack, not react.

Also notice that he has limited cognitive abilities. It's like touring a museum with someone who is color blind; there are some things they just can't see.

In his case, he's a chimp flinging poop.

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/595305/why-chimpanzees-throw-poop
Why Do Chimpanzees Throw Poop?
According to the Jane Goodall Institute of Canada, this type of behavior isn’t usually seen in free-roaming chimps in the wild. While the species is still prone to throwing things, they usually stick to rocks or branches when they want to express their annoyance. In captivity, foreign objects are not usually in abundance, and chimps that are feeling frustrated or anxious will instead opt to toss the one thing that’s in plentiful supply: poop.
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Telocollinite said:
no I'm not. It's called a metaphor.



I discussed that very point at some length.
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Religion is the mystery of the infinite.

The fact that we have Einstein's field equations and have measured the quantum foam removes none of the mystery. The mystery is still there. We still don't understand why this mathmatical scaffolding and this organizing principle exists in the first place.

That is where humility comes in, as articulated by professor Marcellus Gleiser.

Now can you please stop relentlessly composing posts to me, you are clogging up my notifications page and I can't see who else wanted to discuss something with me.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Perry, as you know, is a mentally ill troll who likes to post for reactions. My advice is to attack, not react.

Also notice that he has limited cognitive abilities. It's like touring a museum with someone who is color blind; there are some things they just can't see.

In his case, he's a chimp flinging poop.

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/595305/why-chimpanzees-throw-poop
Why Do Chimpanzees Throw Poop?
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Confronting holy rollers and militant atheists is like poking an ant hill. The clinical entomologist in me is curious about the reaction.
 
Cypress said:
Confronting holy rollers and militant atheists is like poking an ant hill. The clinical entomologist in me is curious about the reaction.
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Bring some lighter fluid and a match...just in case. :thup:

Perry is so comfortable with JPP sock rules and his attacks on you, I suspect he's been here before. Has another militant atheist/mentally ill member ever similarly trolled you before?

A major clue is how quickly he fucked himself with the Jank sock. More evidence that 1) he's not as well educated as he claims and 2) he's emotionally irrational.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Bring some lighter fluid and a match...just in case. :thup:

Perry is so comfortable with JPP sock rules and his attacks on you, I suspect he's been here before. Has another militant atheist/mentally ill member ever similarly trolled you before?

A major clue is how quickly he fucked himself with the Jank sock. More evidence that 1) he's not as well educated as he claims and 2) he's emotionally irrational.
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