The "Fair" Tax is a welfare scam

Care4all said:
I still don't see how it would be any different, they can still legislate law in other ways to accomodate their friends, like laxing Epa Regulations, absolving the payment of land lease fees in the gulf of mexico worth billions to the tax payer, paying for the pipeline from ANWR to the mainland states for the oil companies, giving credits for building new refineries, rewriting bankruptcy laws in the FAVOR of the bank without requiring them to pass these savings on to the customer, Pill bill legislation where the HMO'S AND PHARMA made out like bandits, especiall pharma not having to negotiate bulk discounts and locking us out of Canada...

I can go on and on and changing the tax system will not prevent any of the above from happening imo...thus, IT AIN'T WORTH IT! imho....

And they can raise the consumption tax rate as easily as the income tax rate...ya know they will do it, over and over again....this won't stop spending at all imo, and SPENDING is where the problem begins, it's the ROOT of the problem....

care
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You simply deny them the power to do those any longer. The only one they could always do is the one where so long as the Fed Gov't is buying the product FOR people instead of people buying the product for themselves is give the money to their 'friends'...

One way or the other this would be done. So long as the Feds are buying it will continue to happen. Do you really think those toilet seats and wrenches were worth 20,000?

The Government should NOT provide anything directly.
 
no I don't think they were worth 20k each, but that money was not going to the contractor, that money came back to the usa government and was spent on clandesant CIA projects in South America, Iran, Cuba etc, where they did not want the public to be privvey to their spending in these secretive areas, of security of course! Is my understanding of that situation... :D
 
Lets not forget black market money ... How much Government revenue is lost due to the black market? This would be collected.. because guess what? People who are in the balck market spend money .... how many billions upon billions is this worth?
 
would the consumption/sales tax apply everytime something is sold ? ie I buy a TV pay the tax and then sell it used later. would tax again be paid ?
 
Gee, the fair tax sounds like what I was proposing - a consumption tax, along with a guaranteed minimum income to make the tax progressive. A guranateed minimum income has been an idea around for the past 200 years - Tom Paine was one of the first to propose it.

You guys are whining at nothing. Of course the tax is revenue neautral. It can be reduced later on if you cut government, but proposing any tax that brings in less money than you currently need clearly isn't going to work.
 
Care4all said:
I still don't see how it would be any different, they can still legislate law in other ways to accomodate their friends, like laxing Epa Regulations, absolving the payment of land lease fees in the gulf of mexico worth billions to the tax payer, paying for the pipeline from ANWR to the mainland states for the oil companies, giving credits for building new refineries, rewriting bankruptcy laws in the FAVOR of the bank without requiring them to pass these savings on to the customer, Pill bill legislation where the HMO'S AND PHARMA made out like bandits, especiall pharma not having to negotiate bulk discounts and locking us out of Canada...

I can go on and on and changing the tax system will not prevent any of the above from happening imo...thus, IT AIN'T WORTH IT! imho....

And they can raise the consumption tax rate as easily as the income tax rate...ya know they will do it, over and over again....this won't stop spending at all imo, and SPENDING is where the problem begins, it's the ROOT of the problem....

care
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A consumption tax seems to be more apparent than an income tax, and would probably make people look at what they're spending more.

For instance, I simply ignore what they take away in taxes whenever I get my check, and never even get to see it, but whenever you actually witness an extra 25% of the money you've gotten being pumped into uncle sam you might start seeing government spending in a whole new light.

A consumption tax is also different in the way it taxes savings, however...
 
uscitizen said:
would the consumption/sales tax apply everytime something is sold ? ie I buy a TV pay the tax and then sell it used later. would tax again be paid ?
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Probably.

But in the same way, you get taxed on your income whenever you get your check, and whenever you spend the money, and it becomes someone elses income, it is again taxed. Taxation is practically impossible without double taxation unless you are talking about some sort of property tax (and it could be argued that re-taxing the value of the property over and over again every year is double taxation, also).
 
i think it should be a progressive income tax, without any deductions other than the deduction per person.

then lower the flat rates for income brackets, to something like this:

0 - $45k 5%
45- $90k 10%
90- $180k 15%
180-$360k 20%
360-$$$$k 25%
--------------------------
 
uscitizen said:
Yep, black market like ebay and flea markets ?
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I was thinkng more in the lines of gambling, Drugs, Prostitution and black market merchandise ... all are billion dollar illegl enterpises. This revenue is lost with the current system in place.
 
Care4all said:
i think it should be a progressive income tax, without any deductions other than the deduction per person.

then lower the flat rates for income brackets, to something like this:

0 - $45k 5%
45- $90k 10%
90- $180k 15%
180-$360k 20%
360-$$$$k 25%
--------------------------
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So the person who makes 88,000 a year will end up with more than the person who makes 90,500 .. how is this fair? Why do you insist on penalizing those who monetarily advance in life?
 
why shoudl I help support someone who has a lot of kids by them paying less taxes ?

Klaatu, how would any tax scheme as long as we have untraceable cash help with the blackmarket tax avoidance ?
 
uscitizen said:
why deductions for persons Care ?
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because SS tax would still be separate, and the working class up to 100k or so would be contributing 13% total of their income, (6.5% empl/6.5% company, but it is still counted as an emplyee expense).

while those above 100k would not be paying this tax on their total income, and in the meantime our government is spending and has been spending every dime of the surplus revenues from SS on our general expenditures, our expenses that income tax should be paying for....

we need to somehow credit the income workers that pay for this...so that they do not end up paying more in taxes than the higher income earners, who don't pay it for the most part of their income.

or we need to incorporate SS benefits/taxes, totally in to the income tax structure....imo
 
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