The "Fair" Tax is a welfare scam

klaatu said:
Exactly! When you put it that way it sounds ridiculous doesnt it? This is what people dont seem to get.. these people spend enormous amounts of money on the most ridiculous things.. but it does keep our economy rolling and the windfall to the Government in the form of a consumption tax would be huge.
The Rich in this Country would be doing exatly what some people want... aka ...paying their fair share.

i.e. .... a tax on a 20,000 dog house ...
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The problem is that they don't care whether or not the rich pay their fair share, what they want (they being those in power who oppose the consumption/fair tax and they are not all liberals) is to continue to control the country by controlling the tax loopholes. Lobbyists have a hell of a lot of power and would lose a significant amount of that power if the fair tax were passed. Lobbyist get politicians elected and those politicians ARE NOT GOING TO GIVE UP the power they control with their dangling tax loopholes.

Immie
 
Immanuel said:
The problem is that they don't care whether or not the rich pay their fair share, what they want (they being those in power who oppose the consumption/fair tax and they are not all liberals) is to continue to control the country by controlling the tax loopholes. Lobbyists have a hell of a lot of power and would lose a significant amount of that power if the fair tax were passed. Lobbyist get politicians elected and those politicians ARE NOT GOING TO GIVE UP the power they control with their dangling tax loopholes.

Immie
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A Sales Tax seems to work pretty good down here in Florida ..doesnt it Immie? Aside from the money dished out for Hurricane repair ... this states revenues keep rolling in .....
 
klaatu said:
A Sales Tax seems to work pretty good down here in Florida ..doesnt it Immie? Aside from the money dished out for Hurricane repair ... this states revenues keep rolling in .....
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Yes, it works quite well. You will also note that it seems to work very well for most states and counties. Don't most states (if not all) have a sales tax system set up; even the ones that also use income taxes? That is because the sales tax works. The one thing it eliminates is political power control.

We don't want to limit politicians power do we?

Immie
 
klaatu said:
Exactly! When you put it that way it sounds ridiculous doesnt it? This is what people dont seem to get.. these people spend enormous amounts of money on the most ridiculous things.. but it does keep our economy rolling and the windfall to the Government in the form of a consumption tax would be huge.
The Rich in this Country would be doing exatly what some people want... aka ...paying their fair share.

i.e. .... a tax on a 20,000 dog house ...
Click to expand...

If the wealthiest SPENT EVERY DIME OF THEIR MONEY ON PURCHASES....then it would be fair, to those at the bottom that saves nothing and spends all of their money on purchseses to survive.

Will the wealthiest spend every dime they make and will it be taxed?

ONLY THEN would it truely be a fair tax....to those at the bottom....(in percentage of tax paid out of income.)

If the wealthy consume with only 50% of their money and save the rest, and the average family spends 90% of their money on consumables and saves the remaining 10%....

THEN YOU ARE TAXING those that make less at a higher percentage than those at the top.

How do you overcome that?

What is FAIR about that?

And how do you stop the rich from buying overseas and bringing it in to this country with no taxes paid on it?

(Jeb bush's wife was caught by customs smuggling about 100k worth of goods on an airplane from her overseas trip, I can remember reading.... my girlfriend bought a 20k rolex for her husband when in the EU on business, what would stop her from doing that in the future?)
 
And how do you stop the rich from buying overseas and bringing it in to this country with no taxes paid on it?

(Jeb bush's wife was caught by customs smuggling about 100k worth of goods on an airplane from her overseas trip, I can remember reading.... my girlfriend bought a 20k rolex for her husband when in the EU on business, what would stop her from doing that in the future?)

It happens and you punish them with fines and jail time when you catch them.

I realize you think that under the income tax system no one cheats on their taxes.

Immie
 
Immanuel said:
Yes, it works quite well. You will also note that it seems to work very well for most states and counties. Don't most states (if not all) have a sales tax system set up; even the ones that also use income taxes? That is because the sales tax works. The one thing it eliminates is political power control.

We don't want to limit politicians power do we?

Immie
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How does it LIMIT their power immie? I'd love to hear this from your mouth...

cuz here is what I KNOW!

I still don't see how it would be any different, they can still legislate law in other ways to accomodate their friends, like laxing Epa Regulations, absolving the payment of land lease fees in the gulf of mexico worth billions to the tax payer, paying for the pipeline from ANWR to the mainland states for the oil companies, giving credits for building new refineries, rewriting bankruptcy laws in the FAVOR of the bank without requiring them to pass these savings on to the customer, Pill bill legislation where the HMO'S AND PHARMA made out like bandits, especiall pharma not having to negotiate bulk discounts and locking us out of Canada...

I can go on and on and changing the tax system will not prevent any of the above from happening imo...thus, IT AIN'T WORTH IT!
 
Care,

Under the Fair Tax system a family of 4 receives somewhere in the neighborhood of $450/month to eliminate the taxes they would normally spend on necessities each month. A frugal family of 4 in need could very well have a negative tax of what maybe $200 - $300/month to help? Maybe they can save that money for a car or use it to help pay rent?

Immie
 
A consumption tax can limit the power of the government by simply making it unnecessary for them to know exactly how much you make, where you go and what you win when you get there... It would make the government less intrusive.
 
Care4all said:
How does it LIMIT their power immie? I'd love to hear this from your mouth...

cuz here is what I KNOW!

I still don't see how it would be any different, they can still legislate law in other ways to accomodate their friends, like laxing Epa Regulations, absolving the payment of land lease fees in the gulf of mexico worth billions to the tax payer, paying for the pipeline from ANWR to the mainland states for the oil companies, giving credits for building new refineries, rewriting bankruptcy laws in the FAVOR of the bank without requiring them to pass these savings on to the customer, Pill bill legislation where the HMO'S AND PHARMA made out like bandits, especiall pharma not having to negotiate bulk discounts and locking us out of Canada...

I can go on and on and changing the tax system will not prevent any of the above from happening imo...thus, IT AIN'T WORTH IT!
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Who did you get that quote from?

John Kerry?

Trust him all you want.

Immie
 
Care,

Take away the billions if not hundreds of billions of tax savings these guys wield and tell me that does not limit their power.

Immie
 
klaatu said:
So the person who makes 88,000 a year will end up with more than the person who makes 90,500 .. how is this fair? Why do you insist on penalizing those who monetarily advance in life?
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88k

45k x 5% = $2250
43k x 10%=$4300
total tax= $6550

NET INCOME= $81,450
-------------------------------------------------

90.5K

45k x 5% = $2250
45k x 10% =$4500
0.5k x 15%=$ 75
total tax= $6825

NET INCOME=$83,675.

there IS NO PUNISHMENT FOR MAKING MORE...

where do you get such crap from...the right wing bullshit gallery?

do the math or review the matH klaatu...you can see what you are saying is nothing less than a FALLACY.

CARE
 
Also, Care, no one ever said it would eliminate the power they control, simply reduce it.

You as a socialist don't want to reduce it. You want to increase it for your own goals.

Immie
 
Damocles said:
A consumption tax can limit the power of the government by simply making it unnecessary for them to know exactly how much you make, where you go and what you win when you get there... It would make the government less intrusive.
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what you win ? You mean placing a bet in the casino is not a purchase to be taxed ? You purchase chips and in essence buy a bet.

Also I believe the intrusiveness into our lives by the gummit is inevitable and will only grow. You forget about the war on drugs and terror, etc.
 
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Your purchase should be taxed, your winnings not. At least not until you spend them. Knowing what you win is unnecessary. The government has no need to get into your personal bank account.
 
this is comical

How many of you tax the shit out of the rich socialist make more than 80,000 a year. Are you false outrage liberals or just out right socialist.
I never hear from someone paying more than 35,000 in taxes that they aren't paying enough. LOFL

thanks I recommend last comic standing for you false outrage socialist
 
Immanuel said:
Who did you get that quote from?

John Kerry?

Trust him all you want.

Immie
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It was my POST that YOU neglected to read and ignored earlier in the thread, probably so you could PRETEND that you are still right about YOUR silly assertions that this new tax method will curb congress....

it won't, it is not the answer to anything that is going on right now...
congress will still have the same amount of money to spend and can still give their big gun contributors everything they want....imho.

plus they can raise the sales tax whenever they please, and even EASIER THAN raising income tax rates.....?

Spending is the problem, wasteful spending, and spending alone...by congress will continue under whatever new tax structure we proclaim will save us from it....its smoke and mirrors at this point....

we need restrictions on spending such as paygo, to stop the spending like there is no tomorrow.

care
 
Care4all said:
It was my POST that YOU neglected to read and ignored earlier in the thread, probably so you could PRETEND that you are still right about YOUR silly assertions that this new tax method will curb congress....

it won't, it is not the answer to anything that is going on right now...
congress will still have the same amount of money to spend and can still give their big gun contributors everything they want....imho.

plus they can raise the sales tax whenever they please, and even EASIER THAN raising income tax rates.....?

Spending is the problem, wasteful spending, and spending alone...by congress will continue under whatever new tax structure we proclaim will save us from it....its smoke and mirrors at this point....

we need restrictions on spending such as paygo, to stop the spending like there is no tomorrow.

care
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We need both.
 
Yes how would a fair tax keep the gummit from giving away oil royalties, timber, etc to corps ? What would happen to corporate income taxes under this fair tax scheme ?
 
Damocles said:
Your purchase should be taxed, your winnings not. At least not until you spend them. Knowing what you win is unnecessary. The government has no need to get into your personal bank account.
Click to expand...

And when you spend those winnings they will be taxed as they should be.

Immie
 
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