The Gospel of Thomas
- Thread starter AProudLefty
- Start date
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
CO doesn't do anything except bitch. I'm stating observations.
No. Is me giving my assessment against the law, Ms. Mason? The fact you dodged the question indicates guilt. What did you do? Go nuts in a restaurant or store and the police detained you until your doctor could be contacted?
Melchizedek = Michael
Verified User
How has using goats tactics been working for you.
Get back to me and you're done trolling
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Nice false accusation because you are embarrassed about your condition. No need to be. There is no shame in catching the flu or being mentally ill.
In the Gnostic tradition, Gospel of Thomas was supposedly written by Jesus' twin brother.
If I ever get around to reading any of the Nag Hamadi gnostic canon, I suspect I will gravitate towards the Gospel of Truth. It is supposed to be the richest literary creation of the Gnostics, and is basically a reflection on the significance of Jesus; it is supposed to be completely divorced from the tradition of Torah.
The basic theme seems to be that the fall of humanity was due to ignorance, and the cosmic role of Jesus is to enlighten those who are in darkness and teach them the way of the truth.
If I ever get around to reading any of the Nag Hamadi gnostic canon, I suspect I will gravitate towards the Gospel of Truth. It is supposed to be the richest literary creation of the Gnostics, and is basically a reflection on the significance of Jesus; it is supposed to be completely divorced from the tradition of Torah.
The basic theme seems to be that the fall of humanity was due to ignorance, and the cosmic role of Jesus is to enlighten those who are in darkness and teach them the way of the truth.
ZenMode
Well-known member
Everything about "you" is luck: good or bad. There is nothing you truly control.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Disagreed. Would I be wrong to assume you do not believe in Free Will? That you believe we are ambulatory meat computers responding to biochemical programming and unable to think for ourselves?
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
What fall of humanity? Understood about Jesus being seen as a savior.
To the Gnostics, humans have a spark of the divine light in them and belong not in this material world but in a transcendental realm of the divine. Long ago, our divine spark fell from the transcendental realm due to ignorance and forgetfulness, and became trapped in these material bodies.
ZenMode
Well-known member
I don't think free will necessarily needs to be in the discussion of luck. There are two things that make you who you are: genes and outside influences. Obviously you didn't pick your parents, so any benefit/disadvantage you received from their genes is good or bad luck, but is completely out of your control either way. You also had no control over the existence of any outside influences that had a positive or negative impact on you, so it is also out of your control.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Disagreed since, as you go on to explain, you are only seeing half the problem.
Agreed people are born with their genetics and the circumstances of their birth. How they react to those genetics and circumstances is where Free Will comes in.
Consider the recent murder of an 8-year-old by his grandfather. Are you saying the murder was foretold and completely out of the control of the grandfather? Just bad luck? Or do you agree with me that the grandfather had some choices there? The free will to choose?
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article270702792.html
‘Smart, enthusiastic’ 8-year-old murdered by grandfather in North Texas, friend and cops say
An 8-year-old boy was murdered Sunday morning at his Richland Hills home when he suffered “sharp force injuries to his neck and chest,” according to police and a ruling by officials with the Tarrant County Medical Examiner’s Office. Brenym McDonald’s death was ruled a homicide, and his grandfather was arrested in the case.
https://nypost.com/2023/01/01/phillip-hughes-charged-with-killing-grandson/
Phillip Hughes charged with murder in fatal stabbing of young grandson
A grandfather allegedly stabbed his 8-year-old grandson to death at a north Texas home just hours into the New Year, according to local cops.
Phillip Hughes, 62, was arrested early Sunday after police found the young boy dead when they responded to a reported stabbing around 7:50 a.m., Richland Hills police said.
Melchizedek = Michael
Verified User
Humans have their own Spirit, that makes us part of the Spirit family.
BUT the flesh constantly holds us back!
" The Spirit's will but the flesh is weak"!
ZenMode
Well-known member
I wouldn't say "for told" like some kind of crystal ball scenario, but there's no reason to believe he had a choice/free will. Whatever was influencing him at the time, external or internal, down to the neurological behavior of synapses in his brain, is what caused him to make the decision he made. If we could rewind time, and put the universe/his mind, etc at exactly the same state, he would behave exactly the same way over and over and over and over and over and over for as long as time existed. There is no evidence for free will in that. We all believe that we could have chosen pizza over wings for dinner but, like the grandfather, we would have made the same choice indefinitely if the universe was in exactly the same state as it was when the original decision was made.
Last edited:
Saint Guinefort
Verified User
If free will exists or if free will cannot exist it makes little functional difference. It would be nearly impossible to falsify any hypothesis around it and given that we are "inside" our own brains it has the appearance that free will is real for us.
If it isn't there is probably no way for us to know it. But given that our experience of the world is wholly through the filter of our senses processed in our brains with an overlay of some model to explain it all to ourselves it sure does FEEL like we have free will.
If we can't know one way or another and for all intents and purposes we experience free will, it seems like the debate may be pointless.
If it isn't there is probably no way for us to know it. But given that our experience of the world is wholly through the filter of our senses processed in our brains with an overlay of some model to explain it all to ourselves it sure does FEEL like we have free will.
If we can't know one way or another and for all intents and purposes we experience free will, it seems like the debate may be pointless.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Yes, the theory that we're all soulless ambulatory meat computers solely reacting to biochemical and genetic programming. The Dumb Universe Theory; the Universe suddenly pops into existence (don't ask why) and spews out chemicals which can bond then it dies 100 trillion years later. What happens in between doesn't matter to you.
I disagree and favor not only a synergistic effect when life begins but that the Universe itself is intelligent on some level.
While I agree a bit about events in a timeline, consider the multiverse theory where everything that could happen, does happen.
Multiverse theory says the answer to the question "Ask the girl on a date or not"? is "both". Which multiverse a person ends up depends upon their choices.
One's choice is "free will". You are saying we don't have choices and I disagree.
I have been thinking about free will from the perspective of the quantum many worlds interpretation --> in a quantum state, anything that can happen does happen.
If it's true that our conciousness at the biological level is a quantum state, maybe every decision point we reach branches into many innumerable alternate realities from that decision point.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Agreed. The alternate reality we exist in at the moment is the one we chose. Free Will.
We can't go backwards and change choices. We can only make choices going forward.
I don’t believe that is what they are saying, but they’ve have to clarify for you.
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
?????......how on earth can you rationally make such a claim.......(or wait, did something force you to reach that conclusion against your will).......
Do you believe God is omniscient?