The Gospel of Thomas

ThatOwlWoman said:
It absolutely is not contradictory.

https://www.trilobites.info/triloimposters.htm

I'm glad you brought up the "clam shells on the mountain" thing though. It's easy to see how the ancestors might have believed that they were the result of a huge, worldwide flood that covered the whole planet.
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You think I haven't done due diligence on this? (Trilobites) Since before the internet, baby. On microfiche.

They are Trilobites.
 
Cypress said:
You assume the way North America looks now, is the way it looked 200 million years ago. The alluvial coast of North Carolina did not exist 200 million years ago, and what we think of today as North America was periodically covered in shallow seas. Hudson Bay is a modern example of a shallow arm of the sea inundating part of the North American continent
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You assume 200 million years is correct. If it was, the earth's surface would be miles deep in bones. The sky would be blotted out by bone mountains.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Thanks for this link.
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got to be careful saying Biblical events not proven as they seem to find things every year.
obviously these things will always be matters of faith to some extent but the ancients didnt make up everything or they would never have gotten any attention in their day.
 
Matt Dillon said:
You assume 200 million years is correct. If it was, the earth's surface would be miles deep in bones. The sky would be blotted out by bone mountains.
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Geologic dating of sediments is confirmed by radiometric isotope dating of associated volcanic layers.

You have to get rid of the image of modern geography and coastlines out of your mind. When those shells were deposited in a Paleozoic sea, North America did not even exist.

Most bones chemically decompose over a period of decades, or are consumed by predators. Fossilization of bone parts is extremely rare, and requires special geologic and special geochemical conditions for the bones to be preserved as fossils. Very few bones are preserved for millions of years as fossils.
 
Cypress said:
Geologic dating of sediments is confirmed by radiometric isotope dating of associated volcanic layers.

You have to get rid of the image of modern geography and coastlines out of your mind. When those shells were deposited in a Paleozoic sea, North America did not even exist.

Most bones chemically decompose over a period of decades, or are consumed by predators. Fossilization of bone parts is extremely rare, and requires special geologic and special geochemical conditions for the bones to be preserved as fossils. Very few bones are preserved for millions of years as fossils.
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Yes, and with 200 million years of everything multiplying exponentially, the Earth would be miles deep in bones and there would be millions more fossils.
 
Matt Dillon said:
You assume 200 million years is correct. If it was, the earth's surface would be miles deep in bones. The sky would be blotted out by bone mountains.
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Ah, you're a Young Earther. I've heard that silly comment before.

Bones decay. Only rarely are they preserved long enough to become fossilized. In wet climates they decompose rapidly and are lost. There are very few places on this planet that were not wet at some time or another. In fact, it's almost a miracle that we've been able to find the few fossils that we have.

We have a "body farm" at my university here, where students in the forensic anthropology program can study the decomposition processes in a cold climate. My anthropology prof is one of the instructors, and is sometimes called by law enforcement to identify remains found in this area. By identify I mean to determine if they are human or animal. He said it is unusual to find the remains of a missing human as they are eaten by animals, the bones as well, and what is left breaks down quickly.
 
Cypress said:
Geologic dating of sediments is confirmed by radiometric isotope dating of associated volcanic layers.

You have to get rid of the image of modern geography and coastlines out of your mind. When those shells were deposited in a Paleozoic sea, North America did not even exist.

Most bones chemically decompose over a period of decades, or are consumed by predators. Fossilization of bone parts is extremely rare, and requires special geologic and special geochemical conditions for the bones to be preserved as fossils. Very few bones are preserved for millions of years as fossils.
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I just said the same thing. Yours is better.
 
Mr Apollyon said:
Fine,but your reply was as if it was directed to you personally! Chill out dude
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Okay, I did write in a first person format.

But the specific point was that one does not have to have "religious beliefs" in order to have an interest in religious history...or any other aspect of "religion."
 
Celticguy said:
got to be careful saying Biblical events not proven as they seem to find things every year.
obviously these things will always be matters of faith to some extent but the ancients didnt make up everything or they would never have gotten any attention in their day.
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Agree. The flood stories being so ubiquitous across continents and cultures tells us that *something* happened at some time, but may be lost in the mists of times with only the stories remaining.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
People whether wealthy or poor have questions and seek answers.

Both Christianity and Islam are fast-growing faiths that have spread around the world. There are still millions of Hindus and Buddhists, of course, but for whatever reason they seem to be mostly confined to the regions of their birth. Why is that, do you think? IMO it's because Christianity and Islam appeal to the poor, who are promised a heavenly reward after this life, since obviously they aren't getting much in this one.
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I think you're right.

I have always assumed Islam and Christianity offer a type of spiritual equality and salvation that can be highly appealing, especially to disadvantaged people.

The second century Greek philosopher Celsus denigrated Christianity as a religion of slaves, women, and the poor.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
There is nothing in the fossil record that indicates that. A lot of historians/paleontologists believe that the flood legends stem from the bursting of ice dams following the last Ice Age, and/or rapidly rising sea levels. To primitive ppl with no means of communicating with other communities far away, it must have seemed like a worldwide catastrophic event when their village was washed away.
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A good theory but the time span is a bit long even given a 5,000 year transition. The last ice age ended 25,000 years ago.

https://www.cdm.org/mammothdiscovery/wheniceages.html
There were at least 17 cycles between glacial and interglacial periods. The glacial periods lasted longer than the interglacial periods. The last glacial period began about 100,000 years ago and lasted until 25,000 years ago. Today we are in a warm interglacial period.


Another interesting theory, but even longer ago, is when the dam burst at the Rocks of Gibraltar and let the Atlantic into the Mediterranean basin. Kinda like flooding Death Valley with the Pacific if it was closer.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012825219302521
About six million years ago, the Mediterranean Sea underwent a period of isolation from the ocean and widespread salt deposition known as the Messinian Salinity Crisis (MSC), allegedly leading to a kilometer-scale level drawdown by evaporation. One of the competing scenarios proposed for the termination of this environmental crisis 5.3 million years ago consists of a megaflooding event refilling the Mediterranean Sea through the Strait of Gibraltar: the Zanclean flood.


Although I don't know how they'd know at the time, it's possible ancient humans found signs of flood...or just fossilized seashells and "theorized" a great flood much like some found dinosaur bones and "theorized" about dragons.
 
Frank Apisa said:
Okay, I did write in a first person format.

But the specific point was that one does not have to have "religious beliefs" in order to have an interest in religious history...or any other aspect of "religion."
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No they don't. My point exactly about staying on the outside looking in.
I had zero interest in Religion till dragged in kicking and scream to get someone else, when I had my Epiphany!
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Agree. The flood stories being so ubiquitous across continents and cultures tells us that *something* happened at some time, but may be lost in the mists of times with only the stories remaining.
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I'm sure we can get the answer quite easily, just drain the Atlantic, and start digging in the mud till we find Atlantis.
Easy peasy!
 
Mr Apollyon said:
I'm sure we can get the answer quite easily, just drain the Atlantic, and start digging in the mud till we find Atlantis.
Easy peasy!
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Plato told the story of Atlantis around 360 B.C. The founders of Atlantis, he said, were half god and half human. They created a utopian civilization and became a great naval power. Their home was made up of concentric islands separated by wide moats and linked by a canal that penetrated to the center.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/atlantis
 
Dutch Uncle said:
A good theory but the time span is a bit long even given a 5,000 year transition. The last ice age ended 25,000 years ago.

https://www.cdm.org/mammothdiscovery/wheniceages.html
There were at least 17 cycles between glacial and interglacial periods. The glacial periods lasted longer than the interglacial periods. The last glacial period began about 100,000 years ago and lasted until 25,000 years ago. Today we are in a warm interglacial period.


Another interesting theory, but even longer ago, is when the dam burst at the Rocks of Gibraltar and let the Atlantic into the Mediterranean basin. Kinda like flooding Death Valley with the Pacific if it was closer.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012825219302521
About six million years ago, the Mediterranean Sea underwent a period of isolation from the ocean and widespread salt deposition known as the Messinian Salinity Crisis (MSC), allegedly leading to a kilometer-scale level drawdown by evaporation. One of the competing scenarios proposed for the termination of this environmental crisis 5.3 million years ago consists of a megaflooding event refilling the Mediterranean Sea through the Strait of Gibraltar: the Zanclean flood.


Although I don't know how they'd know at the time, it's possible ancient humans found signs of flood...or just fossilized seashells and "theorized" a great flood much like some found dinosaur bones and "theorized" about dragons.
Click to expand...

I think you're time line is off,at least for Ohio,where the ice left about 12000 years ago.
NW Ohio is flat as a pancake from the two miles of ice that were here.
 
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