The main issue with Christianity

[Ross Dolan]

We shouldn't be trying to explain away abortion...that was my point... it isn't simply a choice of wanted or unwanted... if a woman wants complete control of her body then she should be taking care not to be a part of unwanted pregnancies... I absolutely understand the need for abortions in specific situations however for the most part I completely disagree with using abortion as birth control... there are too many other things to consider...

I disagree with using abortion as birth control also. I disagree with people smoking cigarettes. I disagree with people eating too many carbs...or sweets. I disagree with people who do not exercise. I disagree with people who hate the very notion of golf. I disagree with people who like some of the stuff called "music" today. I disagree with...

...uhh, I think you see where I am going with this TOP.

Anyway...one of the things I disagree with most are people who advocate for laws which will take away a significant amount of control women have over their own bodies.

There is no way I can sign onto a notion that the government can essentially force a pregnant woman to carry to term a pregnancy she wants to terminate.

I suspect many of the men here who argue for such laws would argue quite differently if they were a pregnant woman.

 

[Ross Dolan]

If that's your argument, then the woman is responsible for using birth control if she doesn't want to become pregnant, no?
There are good reasons for an abortion, but birth control is not one of them.

I was very careful when I was single. I would ask if she was using birth control. Otherwise,

Okay...that is a reasonable position. And I have no problem with you advocating for that. BUT I DO NOT WANT OUR GOVERNMENT PASSING LAWS THAT WILL FORCE A WOMAN TO CARRY TO TERM A PREGNANCY THAT SHE WANTS TO TERMINATE.

 

[gfm7175]

A fetus is a fetus. It is not a human. It will become a human when it is born. We all were fetuses at one time. Now...we are humans.

What is the scientific name for the 'fetus' species that you are claiming exists?

And when a fetus is in a woman's body during a pregnancy, she should have the right to end that pregnancy...and she should be able to do so with the assistance of adequate, legal medical care.

Irrelevant chanting...

No...an acorn is not an oak tree.

... but an oak seed (an early developmental stage of oaks) and a full grown oak plant (a later developmental stage of oaks) are both oaks (the species).

I've now had a revelation about precisely what you are doing. One of the games you are trying to play here is this fervent attempt of yours to either conflate developmental stages of life with species classifications (or to otherwise purposely remain vague with your wording) in order to conclude with a false equivalence fallacy in order to deny the truth that a fetus is a living human. I'll even spell out your flawed reasoning for you:

[1] An acorn (an early developmental stage of the oak species) is not an oak tree (a later developmental stage of the oak species)

[2a] A fetus (an early developmental stage of the human species) is not a human (a particular species) (OR)

[2b] A fetus (an early developmental stage of the human species) is not a (an adult?) human (a later developmental stage of the human species)

Tell me I'm not the only one who has noticed the silly games you're playing here...

If you wanted to express a legitimate equivalency instead of a false one (and/or if you wanted to be unambiguous in your language), then you would have phrased [2] as follows: "A fetus is not an adult human". But nooooooooooo, you wish to be a dishonest fugg instead, cowardly hiding behind a false equivalence to shield yourself from the truth that you are a dishonest and shitty person who condones, for the convenience of some other living humans, the killing of living humans who have not committed any crime nor have expressed any desire to die.

THAT'S why you use the particular phrasing "a fetus is not a human", so you can conveniently leave out the fact that in some instances you are referring to 'adult human' (the developmental stage) and in other instances you are referring to 'human' (the species). That also explains the paradox of yours in which you seemingly keep switching back and forth between "a fetus is a human" (human, the species) and "a fetus is not a human" (an adult human, the developmental stage). YOU. ARE. BEING. A. COWARDLY. DISHONEST. FUGG.

No...a chicken egg is not a chicken.

Continued conflation and false equivalence from above.

Chicken egg (developmental state) --> [full grown] chicken (developmental state)

Chicken egg (developmental state) ---> chicken (species)

No...a maggot is not a fly.

Maggot (developmental state) ---> [full grown] fly (developmental state)

Maggot (developmental state) ---> fly (species)

You are offering erroneous information...and supposing it to be something other than erroneous.

You are purposely conflating developmental stages of life with species classifications in order to erroneously conclude with a false equivalence fallacy in order to deny the truth that a fetus (developmental stage) is a living (has a heartbeat) human (the species) and that you are a dishonest shitty person who condones, for the convenience of some other living humans, the killing of living humans who have not committed any crime nor have expressed any desire to die..

I do not evade your questions...

A lie.

and I do not lie to you.

Another lie.


Here is where you respond to me by simply declaring that I "went on a crazy rant" and that you've declared yourself the victor... IOW, this is where you, as IBD would say, "tip your king".

 

[RB 60]

Okay...that is a reasonable position. And I have no problem with you advocating for that. BUT I DO NOT WANT OUR GOVERNMENT PASSING LAWS THAT WILL FORCE A WOMAN TO CARRY TO TERM A PREGNANCY THAT SHE WANTS TO TERMINATE.

The Supreme court got it right. Let the states bring it up to vote. Allowing the killing of the unborn should not be a federal issue.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Are you clearing your paradox here? That means that you are choosing this option and sticking with it, never reverting back to the other option in the future.

There is no paradox...except in your mind.

A fetus in not a living human. I have never asserted anything other than that.

Assuming that you have chosen this option, I must continue to ask the questions that you refuse to answer:

[1] What species is the fetus, if not human?
[2] What does the fetal heartbeat signify, if not life?

The fetus is a fetus. It is not a human. Every human once was a fetus...so a fetus growing in a human female...will eventually become a living human.

A fetal heartbeat signifies a fetal heartbeat. And once the fetus stops being a fetus and becomes a human by being born...its heartbeat will signify a human heart beating.

Continued irrelevant chanting.

Please do. You amuse me.

Continued irrelevant chanting... appeal to emotion fallacy.

Please do. You amuse me.

What rant?

The rant you have been ranting since we have been talking.

I'm simply asking you to clear your paradoxes and answer a few questions.

There are no paradoxes except in your mind. And when you ask a question...I answer it. You apparently do not like my answers...and pretend that because you do not, I have not answered them. We can do something about that.

You're too chicken shit to do so because the truth of the matter makes you out to be a dishonest and shitty person.

I am not dishonest or shitty or (especially) chicken shit. But if asserting that helps you deal with your life...please go for it. I get some enjoyment out of seeing you do that kind of thing.

False declaration of victory. Answer the questions presented to you.

There was no declaration of victory...and I have been answering your questions.

I noted we can do something about this "you are not answering my questions" nonsense.

Let us try this: You ask a SINGLE QUESTION...and I will answer it.. We can discuss the answer if you want. Then I will ask you a SINGLE QUESTION...and we can discuss your answer if you want.

You can even start. Make it the most significant question you have for me.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

The Supreme court got it right. Let the states bring it up to vote. Allowing the killing of the unborn should not be a federal issue.

It should not be a government issue, period. Not federal, not state, not county, not city.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Yup, I likewise REEEEEEALLY hated it when liberals were lording themselves over women, barking orders at them to get several mRNA jabs so they didn't have to punish those women, taking their jobs away from them, for refusing to be wholly subservient to their liberal overlords.

HOW DARE THEY lord themselves over women, controlling what those women do with their own bodies!!!

Did you?

Wow...that is very interesting.

And humorous.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

No, I didn't pay child support, but I did spend a lot of time and money with her when she was younger. She calls me her dad, I call her my little girl (although she's no longer "little").

So you reaped the benefits of fatherhood w/o the hard parts. Nice gig!

Snide remarks aside, you certainly did better than many sperm donors who knew for sure that the forgotten child(ren) were theirs. You know, like that wealthy guy who ran for senator from Georgia. Walker somebody?

 

[Ross Dolan]

What is the scientific name for the 'fetus' species that you are claiming exists?


Irrelevant chanting...


... but an oak seed (an early developmental stage of oaks) and a full grown oak plant (a later developmental stage of oaks) are both oaks (the species).

I've now had a revelation about precisely what you are doing. One of the games you are trying to play here is this fervent attempt of yours to either conflate developmental stages of life with species classifications (or to otherwise purposely remain vague with your wording) in order to conclude with a false equivalence fallacy in order to deny the truth that a fetus is a living human. I'll even spell out your flawed reasoning for you:

[1] An acorn (an early developmental stage of the oak species) is not an oak tree (a later developmental stage of the oak species)

[2a] A fetus (an early developmental stage of the human species) is not a human (a particular species) (OR)

[2b] A fetus (an early developmental stage of the human species) is not a (an adult?) human (a later developmental stage of the human species)

Tell me I'm not the only one who has noticed the silly games you're playing here...

If you wanted to express a legitimate equivalency instead of a false one (and/or if you wanted to be unambiguous in your language), then you would have phrased [2] as follows: "A fetus is not an adult human". But nooooooooooo, you wish to be a dishonest fugg instead, cowardly hiding behind a false equivalence to shield yourself from the truth that you are a dishonest and shitty person who condones, for the convenience of some other living humans, the killing of living humans who have not committed any crime nor have expressed any desire to die. THAT'S why you use the particular phrasing "a fetus is not a human", leaving out that you mean 'adult human' (the developmental stage) instead of human (the species). YOU. ARE. BEING. A. COWARDLY. DISHONEST. FUGG.

No...a chicken egg is not a chicken.
Continued conflation and false equivalence from above.

Chicken egg (developmental state) --> [full grown] chicken (developmental state)

Chicken egg (developmental state) ---> chicken (species)



Maggot (developmental state) ---> [full grown] fly (developmental state)

Maggot (developmental state) ---> fly (species)


You are purposely conflating developmental stages of life with species classifications in order to erroneously conclude with a false equivalence fallacy in order to deny the truth that a fetus is a living human and that you are a dishonest shitty person who condones, for the convenience of some other living humans, the killing of living humans who have not committed any crime nor have expressed any desire to die..


A lie.


Another lie.

Ask a single question. Make it the most important question you have for me. We can discuss my answer if you want. Then I will ask you one.

Then you can go again...until all of your questions have been answered.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Ask a single question. Make it the most important question you have for me. We can discuss my answer if you want. Then I will ask you one.

Then you can go again...until all of your questions have been answered.

You must be very bored today. Golf courses closed because of rain? lol

 

[Ross Dolan]

The Supreme court got it right. Let the states bring it up to vote. Allowing the killing of the unborn should not be a federal issue.

It should not be a state issue either.

If a pregnant woman wants to terminate a pregnancy occurring in her own body...she should not only have that right, but she should be able to do it with the assistance of safe, competent, willing medical help.

 

[Ross Dolan]

You must be very bored today. Golf courses closed because of rain? lol

Nope. Played this morning. Now I am reading and spending some time in this thread.

 

[Phantasmal]

It should not be a state issue either.

If a pregnant woman wants to terminate a pregnancy occurring in her own body...she should not only have that right, but she should be able to do it with the assistance of safe, competent, willing medical help.

They should also be available to women whose fetus die in uteri, too. Hearing women talk about getting sepsis and nearly dying because they could not be treated horrifies me.

States nor federal agencies should interfere with women’s healthcare.

 

[Ross Dolan]

They should also be available to women whose fetus die in uteri, too. Hearing women talk about getting sepsis and nearly dying because they could not be treated horrifies me.

States nor federal agencies should interfere with women’s healthcare.

Absolutely!

That story of the woman sitting in her car waiting until she got into emergency status before any doctor would do anything for her was beyond chilling.

These people are nuts!

 

[RB 60]

So you reaped the benefits of fatherhood w/o the hard parts. Nice gig!

Snide remarks aside, you certainly did better than many sperm donors who knew for sure that the forgotten child(ren) were theirs. You know, like that wealthy guy who ran for senator from Georgia. Walker somebody?

Yep, I guess you could say that. Just spending your time with a young one is a nice gig. It seemed to have worked out, she's doing pretty well.

I take responsibility seriously. Sadly, there are others who do not, and the children are the ones who suffer for it.

 

[RB 60]

It should not be a state issue either.

If a pregnant woman wants to terminate a pregnancy occurring in her own body...she should not only have that right, but she should be able to do it with the assistance of safe, competent, willing medical help.

So you think the father should have no say whatsoever? She took the risk of allowing a man inside her body, she knew those risks when she spread her legs.
You seem to think abortion should be a form of birth control. I do not.

 

[gfm7175]

There is no paradox...except in your mind.

Pretending it doesn't exist doesn't make it go away.

A fetus in not a living human. I have never asserted anything other than that.

Whenever you wish to stop being a dishonest coward, you can answer these questions:

[1] What species is the fetus, if not human?
[2] What does the fetal heartbeat signify, if not the presence of life?

Ergo, a fetus (developmental stage) is a living (has a heartbeat) human (the species).

The fetus is a fetus. It is not a human.

[1] What species is the fetus, if not human?

A fetal heartbeat signifies a fetal heartbeat.

... which signifies the presence of life? Ergo, a living (has a heartbeat) human (the species)?

And once the fetus stops being a fetus and becomes a human by being born...its heartbeat will signify a human heart beating.

... which signifies the presence of life? Ergo, a living (has a heartbeat) human (the species)?

There was no declaration of victory...

Oh how quickly you "forget"...

So continue with your rant. I am enjoying watching you lose it.

and I have been answering your questions.

I noted we can do something about this "you are not answering my questions" nonsense.

Let us try this: You ask a SINGLE QUESTION...and I will answer it.. We can discuss the answer if you want. Then I will ask you a SINGLE QUESTION...and we can discuss your answer if you want.

You can even start. Make it the most significant question you have for me.

Continued gameplaying instead of being straightforward and honest.

 

[BidenPresident]

GRRRRRRRR!!!!!!! BidenPwesident angwee because BidenPwesident stooooopid!!!!!!!

that's that. ignore

 

[gfm7175]

that's that. ignore

Oh noes!!!!

 

[Ross Dolan]

So you think the father should have no say whatsoever? She took the risk of allowing a man inside her body, she knew those risks when she spread her legs.
You seem to think abortion should be a form of birth control. I do not.

I have said what I think...namely, that if a pregnant woman chooses to terminate the pregnancy occurring in her own body, she should be allowed to do so...and she should b able to do so with the assistance of competent, safe, medical care.

By the way, not every pregnancy is the result of a woman willingly allowing a man to enter her body. You do realize that...right?