THE QUESTION OF WHETHER ANY GODS EXIST...

[hypGnosis]

Post number 696..."Sorry. You are the one speaking from ignorance. Every physical thing must have a Creator. It cannot create itself. I'll change my mind if you can show just one example of something creating itself from nothing."

It is a fact that no one has ever witnessed something creating itself. So, what makes you think it's possible? BTW, it is impossible because it violates the one scientific law that all of science is based on. Cause and effect. Ever hear of it?

And no one created God. He has always existed. Eternal. Unchanging. Everything in the physical universe, including the universe itself, requires a causative effect. This is scientific fact. You cannot deny it. A creation requires a creator. That creator must be eternal, because you cannot have an infinite regression of causes. If you do not believe in a Creator, then you must believe that nothing caused everything to happen. Dress it up any way you like, that is exactly what atheists believe. Pure foolishness.

I referenced your challenge in post #697. My reading comprehension skills are, indeed, still on the mark.

I never, ever claimed that something (physical/non-physical) created itself ... therefore I never made the claim that it was possible. I stated, rather succinctly, in post #705 that it seems highly unlikely.

As iolo satirically states in post #707, there is apparently no limit to fantasizing about things existing eternally. Aren't all of history's creator gods supposed to have existed for eternity?

You, the Ugly Truth, are the one making the claim that nothing is attributable to your imaginary god's existence, except that there is some sort of nonsensical relationship between “eternity” and an alleged deity.

My not believing in your creator god does not default to accepting “nothing caused everything to happen”. You are very much in error in claiming “that this is what atheists believe.”

 

[The Ugly Truth]

I referenced your challenge in post #697. My reading comprehension skills are, indeed, still on the mark.

I never, ever claimed that something (physical/non-physical) created itself ... therefore I never made the claim that it was possible. I stated, rather succinctly, in post #705 that it seems highly unlikely.

As iolo satirically states in post #707, there is apparently no limit to fantasizing about things existing eternally. Aren't all of history's creator gods supposed to have existed for eternity?

You, the Ugly Truth, are the one making the claim that nothing is attributable to your imaginary god's existence, except that there is some sort of nonsensical relationship between “eternity” and an alleged deity.

My not believing in your creator god does not default to accepting “nothing caused everything to happen”. You are very much in error in claiming “that this is what atheists believe.”

So, if it didn't create itself, then it must have had a Creator. Right? You said you do not believe that nothing created everything, so you must believe in a Creator. There is no other option. You just painted yourself into a corner.

 

[Ross Dolan]

WOW! Seven replies in a row, from idiots on my ignore list.

You are not the kind of person who truly ignores anyone.

My guess is you are reading this...but don't have the balls to acknowledge it.

In any case, since you think you are smarter and more understanding of science than people like Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking, and Richard Feynman...

...who really gives a rat's ass who you are or are not "ignoring?"

 

[evince]

hes a tiny mind

he has never discussed these issues with anyone who doesn't already agree with him

religious people are not the only ones who act like that

right wing dupes do it all the time

 

[hypGnosis]

So, if it didn't create itself, then it must have had a Creator. Right? You said you do not believe that nothing created everything, so you must believe in a Creator. There is no other option. You just painted yourself into a corner.

I assume your use of the word “it” is in reference to the Universe.

No, I do not posit a creator god as the cause of the Universe, because there is nothing, I repeat absolutely nothing, in evidence of the existence, or prior existence, of anybody's creator gods

Scope out Wikipedia for a short list of over 100 creator gods, viz.

Wikipedia: Creator Gods


About 90 years ago, based on observable evidence, cosmologists have determined that the cause of the Universe is something that must have been very, very small. Some 13.8 billion years ago, that little something metamorphosed into our then nascent universe.

If you accept the notion of the “Big Bang”, then you should (if you have a concern for being forthright with yourself) acknowledge that there was something that went “bang”, figuratively speaking.

That is pretty much where I stand with the cause of our Universe. Beyond that, cause/effect-wise, I have no data ... and neither do you.

You claim a “goddidit”, which is typical of theistic explanations for the unknown. To compound a mystery with another mystery does nothing to resolve the initial mystery.

I haven't painted myself into a corner, but as you can see, the field is wide open for advancing the discovery of what it was that went “bang” and how it came to be.

You, the Ugly Truth, have chosen to go down a rabbit hole that not only lacks an explanation of how a creator god creates universes, but also lacks evidence of a creator god in the first place.

 

[The Ugly Truth]

I assume your use of the word “it” is in reference to the Universe.

No, I do not posit a creator god as the cause of the Universe, because there is nothing, I repeat absolutely nothing, in evidence of the existence, or prior existence, of anybody's creator gods

Scope out Wikipedia for a short list of over 100 creator gods, viz.

Wikipedia: Creator Gods


About 90 years ago, based on observable evidence, cosmologists have determined that the cause of the Universe is something that must have been very, very small. Some 13.8 billion years ago, that little something metamorphosed into our then nascent universe.

If you accept the notion of the “Big Bang”, then you should (if you have a concern for being forthright with yourself) acknowledge that there was something that went “bang”, figuratively speaking.

That is pretty much where I stand with the cause of our Universe. Beyond that, cause/effect-wise, I have no data ... and neither do you.

You claim a “goddidit”, which is typical of theistic explanations for the unknown. To compound a mystery with another mystery does nothing to resolve the initial mystery.

I haven't painted myself into a corner, but as you can see, the field is wide open for advancing the discovery of what it was that went “bang” and how it came to be.

You, the Ugly Truth, have chosen to go down a rabbit hole that not only lacks an explanation of how a creator god creates universes, but also lacks evidence of a creator god in the first place.

What caused the big bang? Remember the law of cause and effect. You just can't get around it. Everything that exists had to have a beginning, and it could not have created itself. Thus it requires a Creator. Simple logic. If there is no Creator, then everything created itself. Those are the only options available. Do you believe that the universe created itself?

 

[domer76]

I claimed that nothing PHYSICAL can create itself from nothing. This is backed up by science. God is not a physical Being. You really need to work on your reading comprehension skills.

God isn't? How do you know. Did he/she/it tell you?

 

[USFREEDOM911]

That's OK Francis, you go right on believing that.

Here’s how I view you.

Now show everyone how your OCD makes you reply.

 

[domer76]

And no one created God. He has always existed. Eternal. Unchanging. Everything in the physical universe, including the universe itself, requires a causative effect. This is scientific fact. You cannot deny it. A creation requires a creator. That creator must be eternal, because you cannot have an infinite regression of causes. If you do not believe in a Creator, then you must believe that nothing caused everything to happen. Dress it up any way you like, that is exactly what atheists believe. Pure foolishness.

Who told you that your god has always existed? Where is your scientific basis for that?

Where the fuck was your god and what was he doing for all that eternity up until about 15 billion years ago? That was a lot of time doing nothing.

Who told you there was anything such as "eternity"?

Your god sure changed around the time of the New Testament. Went from an angry and spiteful son-of-a-bitch to a kind and benevolent one. Was that some kind of mid-life crisis or did he mellow in his old age?

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Jesus H. Christ...get the hell off that old tune. Nobody is buying it.

If "science" (meaning scientists) back it up...why were people like Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking, and Richard Feynman ATHEISTS and AGNOSTICS.

Wake the hell up. If it were anywhere near as clear and certain as you are pretending it is...they would NOT HAVE BEEN ATHEISTS AND AGNOSTICS.

Do you honestly think you see the "scientific" implications better than Einstein, Hawking and Fenman? Do you think you are smarther than they?

And what about all the many other scientists who are atheists and agnostics?

WAKE UP!

I can see that you're triggered, once again; but Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking, and Richard Feynman are not ATHEISTS and AGNOSTICS.

 

[domer76]

That's OK Francis, you go right on believing that.

Here’s how I view you.

Now show everyone how your OCD makes you reply.

^OWNED BY FRANK APISA^

 

[Ross Dolan]

What caused the big bang? Remember the law of cause and effect. You just can't get around it. Everything that exists had to have a beginning, and it could not have created itself. Thus it requires a Creator. Simple logic. If there is no Creator, then everything created itself. Those are the only options available. Do you believe that the universe created itself?

This guy just never learns!

 

[Ross Dolan]

That's OK Francis, you go right on believing that.

Here’s how I view you.

https://media.giphy.com/media/YnVuogBiaiAGQ/giphy.gif[IMG]

Now show everyone how your OCD makes you reply. :D[/QUOTE]

My name is not Francis...I do not do "believing."

You are my pet, US. Here is how I think of you today:
[img]https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSUoNSubmaMw4PFrkStIN1lwmrcYzHRJVdvQm7tAaWl79GGHES5

 

[Ross Dolan]

I can see that you're triggered, once again; but Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking, and Richard Feynman are not ATHEISTS and AGNOSTICS.

I am not triggered, my tail chasing little pet.

Albert Einstein was an agnostic...Stephen Hawking and Richard Feynman have at various times described themselves as agnostics...and at other times as atheists.

And since all three are dead...you use of "are not" makes as little sense as your constant tail chasing.

 

[rjhenn]

You are supposing gods have to be "omnipotent" "omnipresent" and "intervening."

No need to make those assumptions.

If you are saying you can show that NO GODS EXIST...or IT IS MORE LIKELY THAT NO GODS EXIST THAN AT LEAST ONE CAN...

...using logic, reason, science, or math...do so.

I will give it consideration...and I promise you, if I find it compelling, I will acknowledge you have done it.

Those who believe in the Abrahamic God insist that He is "omnipotent" "omnipresent" and "intervening." Accepting what they insist on just makes it even more likely that there's no such Being. There's absolutely no evidence for the exixtence of any gods. OTOH, there's plenty of evidence of the human tendency to hallucinate and imagine that there are gods. There are also known naturally occuring hallucinogens. There's no way that you can use either science or math to decide the issue. Of course, any god that wanted to could easily prove their existence. Apparently, none has ever wanted to.

 

[iolo]

It seems to me that Ugly Truth is aiming at a closed Universe, where not only does he know one answer and repeats it over and over , but he is also cutting off contact with anything else. I do a fair bit of ignoring myself, but that is mainly because I don't see a lot of point in two people simply contradicting one another for ever, and in UT's case I don't see the point of posting at all.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Those who believe in the Abrahamic God insist that He is "omnipotent" "omnipresent" and "intervening." Accepting what they insist on just makes it even more likely that there's no such Being. There's absolutely no evidence for the exixtence of any gods. OTOH, there's plenty of evidence of the human tendency to hallucinate and imagine that there are gods. There are also known naturally occuring hallucinogens. There's no way that you can use either science or math to decide the issue. Of course, any god that wanted to could easily prove their existence. Apparently, none has ever wanted to.

We agree on most of this, RJ...but I stick with my contention that just as there is no way to determine that at least one god exists using logic, reason, science or math...

...I suggest that there is no way to determine that no gods exist using those things.

Same goes for "it is more likely" in either direction.

Obviously either NO GODS EXIST...or at least one GOD exists.

One side of the issue is almost certainly correct.

My position is that I do not know which side that is...and I do not have enough unambiguous evidence to make a meaningful guess which it is.

 

[Ross Dolan]

It seems to me that Ugly Truth is aiming at a closed Universe, where not only does he know one answer and repeats it over and over , but he is also cutting off contact with anything else. I do a fair bit of ignoring myself, but that is mainly because I don't see a lot of point in two people simply contradicting one another for ever, and in UT's case I don't see the point of posting at all.

Yup.

Ugly has decided that he has the answer...the answer to the question the finest minds ever to live on planet Earth have been unable to authoritatively answer.

Nothing one can do to correct that...except for Ugly.

 

[The Ugly Truth]

Those who believe in the Abrahamic God insist that He is "omnipotent" "omnipresent" and "intervening." Accepting what they insist on just makes it even more likely that there's no such Being. There's absolutely no evidence for the exixtence of any gods. OTOH, there's plenty of evidence of the human tendency to hallucinate and imagine that there are gods. There are also known naturally occuring hallucinogens. There's no way that you can use either science or math to decide the issue. Of course, any god that wanted to could easily prove their existence. Apparently, none has ever wanted to.

How do you explain Bible prophecy? No one could make such predictions unless they were omniscient.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Those who believe in the Abrahamic God insist that He is "omnipotent" "omnipresent" and "intervening." Accepting what they insist on just makes it even more likely that there's no such Being. There's absolutely no evidence for the exixtence of any gods. OTOH, there's plenty of evidence of the human tendency to hallucinate and imagine that there are gods. There are also known naturally occuring hallucinogens. There's no way that you can use either science or math to decide the issue. Of course, any god that wanted to could easily prove their existence. Apparently, none has ever wanted to.

by "intervening" you seem to believe he must do whatever you tell him to......there are no contradictions inherent in the existence of God....