THE QUESTION OF WHETHER ANY GODS EXIST...

Leonthecat said:
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Excellent!

And a very important point was made there.

Thanks.

I'm hoping an actual discussion of the topic gets going.

The fact that some people guess there is at least one god...and some guess there are none...IS IMPORTANT.
 
One of the problems with this site is that so many topics go off the track because of people who only have derailing in mind.

Hope there are some people who really want to discuss the issue raised.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
why is it not a stupid question?.......it has no answer.....everyone knows that the question of "is there a God" is intentionally a faith choice which cannot be proven in any manner.....
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Since it is a question the finest minds that have ever lived on this planet have contemplated and dealt with...

...I IS NOT A STUPID QUESTION.

Why not just express a YES to the part of my OP with which you agree...which seems to be the entire OP?
 
Pretty sure that today's school shooting (the 18th this year, according to Everytown) puts to rest this question once and for all. There are no gods.
 
Leonthecat said:
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reminds of a dog I was priveledged to be family with


she was more delicate looking than that one


she was the most intelligent animal I have ever known.

she would sit in front of me and talk to me.

I would have her do the

Do you want such and such


a woof meant yes


just looking me in the eye and not saying anything meant No


she had the power to make clear what she wanted by us just knowing each other so well


she was beautiful

she looked like a black wolf with a docked tail


but her coat was soft as feathers


what a girl she was


stunning


and found at the pound

rescue


go there and let some dog steal your heart


then take care of them for their entire life


you will remember them as one of your best friends ever in life
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Pretty sure that today's school shooting (the 18th this year, according to Everytown) puts to rest this question once and for all. There are no gods.
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why would an all knowing all seeing being allow such a thing


if you say God gave people free will then why aren't the religious people helping us END these things with their FREE WILL

do they misunderstand their own God?
 
Frank Apisa said:
One of the problems with this site is that so many topics go off the track because of people who only have derailing in mind.

Hope there are some people who really want to discuss the issue raised.
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we will try to keep it going


its a great exersize to help people re evaluate their morals


this is a national time of moral confusion


time to go back over the basics of belief

what ever you believe


there is always the now

to quote another great man of peace


"a mighty god


is a living man"


which means to me


whatever you believe that makes you the ambassador of your own beliefs.


make your life the tool of what you believe

that is truly giving your life to god IF you truly believe in GOD

Jesus was a great human philosopher

he spoke of a beautiful mankind we could create


he said nothing of letting children die so people could have guns they don't need


what would make you think he would back not feeding hungry children because you thought their Mom was lazy.


American Christians sometimes seem to want they shame their faith
 
Frank Apisa said:
...cannot be answered using logic, reason, science, or math.

It just cannot be done...or at least, I am asserting that it cannot. I've tried...never come close. I've challenged hundreds of others to give it a shot...none has ever come close.

I am inviting anyone who can prove the assertion wrong...or show substantially that it most likely is wrong...to do so.

To make my assertion even more specific...and more encompassing...I'm going to expand it:

One cannot use logic, reason, science, or math...to substantiate "At least one god exists."

One cannot use logic, reason, science, or math...to substantiate "No gods exist."

One cannot use logic, reason, science, or math...to substantiate "It is more likely that at least one god exists...than that no gods exist."

One cannot use logic, reason, science, or math...to substantiate "It is more likely that no gods exist...than that at least one god exists."

Comments would be appreciated.

Proving me wrong would be even more appreciated.
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Logically speaking....answer this one question. Can you explain via using the laws of physics just what Caused the physical universe to come into physical reality? In other words if there is no "SUPER(superior) Natural (to nature) cause of the creation....where did the required products of the BIG BANG come from....mass/matter, it is beyond the capacity of natural physics to define its own creation then by logic....it must be a product of a superior force than physical reality. If not...why not? Did the universe create itself from NOTHING? Even if you attempt to theorize countless and untold "parallel" realities/universes...i.e., the multiverse theory....there must have been a beginning because physical science proves that the Universe is expanding and dying.

Call it what you will.....but according to the law of causality....SOMETHING SUPERIOR to the natural universe is responsible for its creation its physical existence...THE EFFECT known as physical reality. I simply accept my place as the inferior to that creating force an live my life as directed by both science and logic.

And by use of deductive reasoning based upon simple logic....that supernatural creating force is ETERNAL...unlike its product....the physical universe.

You may not be able to explain creation by science....but that does not stop the reality from existing, nor does your ignorance prohibit a supernatural force from existing...as its beyond the laws of physical science to quantify or calibrate. The created can never be greater than the whole from which it was subtracted......You might have a paradox....but I do not, I simply define truth via the prima facie evidences that surround us on a daily basis. Unlike you.....who needs to measure something he/she is incapable of measuring....I DO NOT need such objective evidence in oder to define truth beyond the reason of doubt....until YOU or anyone can scientifically present the objective, testable, reproducible, constant facts that debunk the existence of a supernatural creating force.....the prima facie evidence stands unchallenged by physics that cannot even comprehend the reasons that physical laws are as they are.......\

FYI: its not a matter of "blind faith"....its a matter of truth as defined via circumstantial evidences. Its exactly because you can't prove that God does not exist...that grants me the continued use of these prima facie evidences that are yet to be debunked by REAL PHYSICAL SCIENCE. Its nothing but pseudo science to suggest that theory, conjecture, and or speculation stands as scientific fact...when in reality its nothing but HUMAN PHILOSOPHY that exists only in one place...between the ears of someone who is suggesting it as truth that is yet to be proven....that my friend is the very definition of BLIND FAITH....propagating something as a HOPED FOR TRUTH void of having the physical factual evidence to support it. Yet your philosophy is superior those who use circumstantial evidences in order to test anything for truth?

Even in a court of law....prima facie evidences stand as valid evidence of convection until some Objective Testable Evidence is presented that proves the circumstantial evidence to be false.


There is no "rabbit hole" to enter.....when all the proof one requires is all around them. Simple things, like Love.....the inability of science to create life from nothing as they claim happened in the past...yet cannot reproduce today, if indeed it were a fact of science. Even a simple term like gravity.....as the only thing that can be defined about gravity is its quantifiable effects.....we know it exists by the fact its effects are subject to quantifiable reality...but some attempt to claim that GRAVITY preexisted the big bang and caused everything to come from nothing. Well....Mr. Hawking ....is GRAVITY nothing or is it Something? If it has the power to create...then it must be physically quantifiable and it is SOMETHING....where did gravity come from? Its your guild that has the paradox....not those who accept their place in this physical realm as being INFERIOR to that creating force....whether its called God or Nature.
 
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