The Two Basic Types of Liberal

Dixie said:
He barely led in the polls, and if I am not mistaken, that was before the D&R primaries, so it wasn't a "three-man" race. Gridlock is exactly what he would have created, and nothing he proposed would have come to pass. So what is the point in supporting a third-party candidate again?
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The point is to not accept less than what we want as a leader. The point is not to let 2 parties rule us by offering such limited choices.

The point is to have a candidate that offers us something other than the "bait & switch" that the promises of modern candidates has become.
 
Southern Man said:
Not their claim, but mine, and an opinion which is supported by reality. *shrug*
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and this exemplifies why my statement about 3rd parties is spot on. Too many people of partisan bent are too afraid of the opposition winning, hence they would rather vote their own party or the lesser of two evils.
 
Dixie said:
This is really funny. Pinheads have once again diverted a thread off into a silly and pointless debate about third parties, and how they really really do have a shot! It's absolutely priceless, because it exposes one of the most profound flaws in liberals, they are consummate dreamers! I actually think this is an attribute they share with libertarians.

None of these pinheads can name a third party presidential candidate in recent history who has gotten more than 5% of the vote.... but that just proves how brainwashed we are, and if we could only open our minds to the possibilities... then we could prove Solitary's point is correct! This is the extreme they go to, in order to make a case for their silliness. IF wishes were made of candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas! IF a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass when he jumped! Liberals, both the "smart" and "dumb" types, live in this fantasy world of "IF" ...and it is the basis for all of what they hold near and dear.
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Dixie, name one racial minority candidate that has won a presidential election?

Dixie, name one racial minority candidate that has ever won a major primary.

Dixie, name one female candidate that has ever come close to winning a presidential election.

Dixie, name any minority or female vice-presidential candidates for major parties.




This "it has never happened before" is the absolute worst reason to give. Because most things have never happened before, until they happen.

The only reasons you have given for not voting for a third party is the fear that your arch nemesis will win, and that no third party candidates have won before.

Is that really what you want to base your votes on? Do you really think we will continue to prosper and remain the greatest nation on earth by voting for the lesser of two evils? Do you really think that the two parties we have now act in the best interest of the people?

And that is the real crux of the matter. Does the party act in the best interest of the people. Neither the republicans nor the democrats have done so in a long time.

But you want to make sure that everyone votes for one of those two, or they are pinheads?
 
Southern Man said:
Not their claim, but mine, and an opinion which is supported by reality. *shrug*
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By the reality of a population that has been herded by fear into one of two camps.

That is the worst reason for voting. It virtually insures gridlock and leaves the elections up to the swing voters, who are notoriously fickle.
 
The sooner we move passed that and on to voting for candidates that reflect our individual beliefs, the sooner we will enjoy the fruits of our labors.
 
Damocles said:
I vote that way because it sends a message to those I would normally vote for. You can vote however you like.

I pretty much subscribe to the idea that if you are oting for the lesser of two evils, you are still voting for evil.
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And what message were you successful in sending? Was it intended to send the message to the Republicans to abandon social conservatism? I don't think they got the message, Damo! Was it to tell the Democrats to become more moderate conservative? Again, don't think that message was received either. George Bush, John McCain, John Kerry, Al Gore, Barrack Obama, Joe Biden... are not EVIL people! EVIL is Saddam Hussein! EVIL is Kim Jong Il! You should really learn to distinguish the difference.

Solitary said:
The point is to not accept less than what we want as a leader. The point is not to let 2 parties rule us by offering such limited choices....The point is to have a candidate that offers us something other than the "bait & switch" that the promises of modern candidates has become.
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Well did you achieve your objective? We're still ruled by the two parties! You will still have to accept a Republican or Democrat as president! Anyone can run as a third party candidate and promise you whatever the fuck they want to, it doesn't mean you're going to get it! In fact, there is about a 99.99999% chance, you won't get anything close to it.

Solitary said:
Dixie, name one racial minority candidate that has won a presidential election?

Dixie, name one racial minority candidate that has ever won a major primary.

Dixie, name one female candidate that has ever come close to winning a presidential election.

Dixie, name any minority or female vice-presidential candidates for major parties.




This "it has never happened before" is the absolute worst reason to give. Because most things have never happened before, until they happen.

The only reasons you have given for not voting for a third party is the fear that your arch nemesis will win, and that no third party candidates have won before.

Is that really what you want to base your votes on? Do you really think we will continue to prosper and remain the greatest nation on earth by voting for the lesser of two evils? Do you really think that the two parties we have now act in the best interest of the people?

And that is the real crux of the matter. Does the party act in the best interest of the people. Neither the republicans nor the democrats have done so in a long time.

But you want to make sure that everyone votes for one of those two, or they are pinheads?
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Yes, you are pinheads, because you believe in some hypothetical nonsense that isn't going to happen in the real world. Instead of getting involved in Democrat or Republican politics to shape THEIR agendas, you had rather run around flapping your wings and gums about some moron 3rd party candidate who stands no chance in hell of winning an election, and would be ineffective even IF he did!

This results in the Democrats becoming more radical left, because that is now their base, while the Republicans move away from core conservative principles to try and chase after people like Damo, who are somewhat moderate. In the end, it doesn't really matter what either party stands for, one of them will get more votes than the other, and that is who we are stuck with until the next election! Your vote is completely a waste of time.

We have a two party system in America, and that is just a sad fact of reality. But given that IS the reality, it becomes vitally important for those of us who give two shits about our government, to get involved in one of the two parties to shape the platform. As long as a significant percentage of us are out chasing a fucking pipe dream, imagining we are "making a difference" with our dissenting 3rd party votes, we will continue to see what has been happening over the past couple of decades in politics. The solution is not to run away from the two major parties, it is to embrace one or the other and make it what you want it to be.
 
Solitary said:
The sooner we move passed that and on to voting for candidates that reflect our individual beliefs, the sooner we will enjoy the fruits of our labors.
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Democrats are happy to vote for their candidates and enjoy the fruits of your labor. :)
 
Southern Man said:
Democrats are happy to vote for their candidates and enjoy the fruits of your labor. :)
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The democrats aren't exactly thrilled with their candidate either.

many of them dislike the stimulus package. and even more are angry because Obama is ignoring the more liberal elements.
 
Dixie said:
And what message were you successful in sending? Was it intended to send the message to the Republicans to abandon social conservatism? I don't think they got the message, Damo! Was it to tell the Democrats to become more moderate conservative? Again, don't think that message was received either. George Bush, John McCain, John Kerry, Al Gore, Barrack Obama, Joe Biden... are not EVIL people! EVIL is Saddam Hussein! EVIL is Kim Jong Il! You should really learn to distinguish the difference.



Well did you achieve your objective? We're still ruled by the two parties! You will still have to accept a Republican or Democrat as president! Anyone can run as a third party candidate and promise you whatever the fuck they want to, it doesn't mean you're going to get it! In fact, there is about a 99.99999% chance, you won't get anything close to it.




Yes, you are pinheads, because you believe in some hypothetical nonsense that isn't going to happen in the real world. Instead of getting involved in Democrat or Republican politics to shape THEIR agendas, you had rather run around flapping your wings and gums about some moron 3rd party candidate who stands no chance in hell of winning an election, and would be ineffective even IF he did!

This results in the Democrats becoming more radical left, because that is now their base, while the Republicans move away from core conservative principles to try and chase after people like Damo, who are somewhat moderate. In the end, it doesn't really matter what either party stands for, one of them will get more votes than the other, and that is who we are stuck with until the next election! Your vote is completely a waste of time.

We have a two party system in America, and that is just a sad fact of reality. But given that IS the reality, it becomes vitally important for those of us who give two shits about our government, to get involved in one of the two parties to shape the platform. As long as a significant percentage of us are out chasing a fucking pipe dream, imagining we are "making a difference" with our dissenting 3rd party votes, we will continue to see what has been happening over the past couple of decades in politics. The solution is not to run away from the two major parties, it is to embrace one or the other and make it what you want it to be.
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The idea that you are willing to settle for what one of the two sets of power-brokers offers, and then have the audacity to call me a pinhead, is laughable.

Ok, so it hasn't happened yet.

Those of us who give two shits about our freedoms are out trying to bring about some meaningful changes. And we are being resisted by people who say "Its never been done, so we can't do it!" or "We have only two parties, you need to deal with that".

No, those of us who are not willing to be sheep who blindly follow what the party bosses say are the ones who give two shits.

Those of us who are trying to stop BOTH parties from curtailing our freedoms ever further are the ones who are stepping up and trying to accomplish something.
 
Solitary said:
The idea that you are willing to settle for what one of the two sets of power-brokers offers, and then have the audacity to call me a pinhead, is laughable.

Ok, so it hasn't happened yet.

Those of us who give two shits about our freedoms are out trying to bring about some meaningful changes. And we are being resisted by people who say "Its never been done, so we can't do it!" or "We have only two parties, you need to deal with that".

No, those of us who are not willing to be sheep who blindly follow what the party bosses say are the ones who give two shits.

Those of us who are trying to stop BOTH parties from curtailing our freedoms ever further are the ones who are stepping up and trying to accomplish something.
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Climb down off your pompous patriotic high horse for a moment, and understand this... YOU ARE NOT ACCOMPLISHING ANYTHING! YOU ARE WASTING YOUR VOTE!

You are being worse than a sheep... a sheep actually serves some purpose... you are serving NO purpose! The "party bosses" are who the "party loyalists" select, and if you have abandoned the party, you don't have a voice in that selection... who do you think gets that voice in your absence? That's right, the extremists, the lobbies, the people who have an agenda and are smart enough to figure out that one of two parties will control power. While you are chasing some idiotic pipe dream of a brave new world, these people are proactively structuring and shaping the Republican and Democratic parties, and for better or worse, we will be governed by one of the two.

No, it hasn't happened yet, Sol... and guess fucking what? It ain't gonna happen! Even if it DID happen, if you somehow mustered enough grass roots support for a third party candidate to get elected, he/she would be so polarized and isolated by the two parties in Congress, nothing you want to happen would get accomplished... so even if you WIN, you still LOSE!

Standing on your principles is one thing, being outright foolish is another. When it comes right down to it, how many politicians have you ever known in your lifetime, who's total package was exactly in line with what you believed? Probably very few... why? Because we are all individuals, and our ideals, wants, desires, concerns, are all different. No politician can be "all you want them to be" ...it's impossible, unless you want to run yourself.... then, you can only expect a few votes, because chances are, others are not going to agree with you on everything. So, you see, Sol... we have to make choices here, we have to weigh the pro's and con's and figure out who is closer to our own ideology, and go with that.

From my perspective, I don't understand the "third party" mindset. We have a pretty clear indication of what each party basically represents... More government? Democrat! Less Government? Republican! Pro Choice? Democrat! Pro Life? Republican! The defining issues are starkly different between the two parties... Why you can't figure out which is more in-line with what you believe, is beyond me.
 
Dixie you couldn't convince this guy that his fly was down even if his dick was hanging and it was 40 below.
 
Dixie said:
I'll tell you, the dirty little secret is, McCarthy was spot on! Everything he said would happen, has happened. Hollywood is indeed infiltrated with Communist thinkers and propagandists. Of course, they all hide behind the banner of "Liberalism" or "Progressives" and convince the useful idiots they are not Communist.
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And Ronnie Reagan defended the hollywood commies too!
 
Note to Dixie - McCarthy was a member of the Senate, not Congress. It was HUAC who went after Hollywood. McCarthy considered people outside of government to not be a threat, so he spent his energy going after civil service members, and eventually the military, where he met his political downfall at the hands of Ike.
 
Solitary said:
But I also recall more than a few liberals expressing fervent hopes that someone would assasinate Bush.

QUOTE]

This was my first chance to read this thread. I'm sorry I missed out. So Tim McVey hated taxes which he learned from Rush Limbaugh according to Desh? I am far from a history buff but hasn't our country numerous times through its history had revolts regarding taxes? I don't think this was something that started once 'Lush Limpballs' went on the air.

And Solitary I attended three anti-war marches in S.F. Two prior to the Iraq invasion and one after. And yes there were multiple death to Bush signs held by protestors. Desh has talked about another Murrah incident its like her desire for it is almost palpable.

I'm not that smart and I'm a partisan but some of this extreme partisanship is just comical.
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Solitary said:
The democrats aren't exactly thrilled with their candidate either.

many of them dislike the stimulus package. and even more are angry because Obama is ignoring the more liberal elements.
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I don't know I think most liberals are pretty happy. His stimulus package is pretty liberal. You really only see one person on this board, for example, complain and that's BAC.
 
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