UN demands actions

Superfreak said:
Do tell... how is the blockade illegal?
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Er...Israel has a duty to protect the civilian population of Gaza as they are, despite Israel's protestations, regarded as the occupying power (it's all to do with those pesky Geneva conventions and shit).

Amazingly cutting off Gaza and refusing to allow in a sufficient amount of food, medicine, the staples of life and that, is what we in the international community know as "collective punishment".

Israel might even have been subject to some draconian missives from the Security Council if it weren't for some vetoing nation. I can't think for the life of me who that could be though.
 
Superfreak said:
So they are not only attempting to run the blockade, but they are also carrying cargo specifically banned for Gaza?

yeah... its the Israeli's doing the provoking...
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Yep, I guess Hamas was going to fire some of the cement bags over the border. You still haven't addressed the question of the illegal nature of attacking ships in international waters.
 
Superfreak said:
and it will be boarded and diverted to Ashdod as well.



wow... how about this mister Martin... if it is so imperitive to avoid action that could lead to further bloodshed... how about you tell your 'irish owned' ship to dock at Ashdod instead of trying to run a blockade???

Just a little food for thought.
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Where does Israel get the authority to turn ships around anyway? They have even pissed off Neil Clark who has always been one of their biggest apologists in the past.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1283051/Brutality-Israels-aid-ship-attack-lose-faith.html
 
Superfreak said:
and it will be boarded and diverted to Ashdod as well.



wow... how about this mister Martin... if it is so imperitive to avoid action that could lead to further bloodshed... how about you tell your 'irish owned' ship to dock at Ashdod instead of trying to run a blockade???

Just a little food for thought.
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Let's see you defend that fucker Avidor Lieberman as well. Whilst you are about it, maybe you can justify the use of white phosphorus on civilians in Gaza. That is especially ironic as the Nazis used the same thing on London and Coventry in WW2.
 
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tom prendergast said:
Yep, I guess Hamas was going to fire some of the cement bags over the border. You still haven't addressed the question of the illegal nature of attacking ships in international waters.
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1) As I stated earlier, Israel would have been smarter to wait until the ships were in territorial water.

2) That said, when we had a blockade around Japan, we were also in International waters.

3) They did not 'attack' the ships. Had they attacked them, they would be sunk. They boarded the ships after repeated attempts to divert them from attempting to run the blockade were ignored. They had the chance to divert to the port in Israel, they knew they were not going to be allowed past the blockade.

4) Go watch the videos of the Israeli's landing on the ship. They were attacked before their feet hit the ground. This entire event was a set up by the 'humanitarian' people who were looking for a confrontation. They got what they went seeking.

5) The cement is banned due to Hamas using the cement for fortifying positions. Again... it was KNOWN that this was banned, yet they brought it anyway. Again it demonstrates the desire of the 'humanitarians' for confrontation.
 
tom prendergast said:
Where does Israel get the authority to turn ships around anyway? They have even pissed off Neil Clark who has always been one of their biggest apologists in the past.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1283051/Brutality-Israels-aid-ship-attack-lose-faith.html
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They have the RIGHT to protect themselves.... AS DOES EGYPT... you know... the OTHER country participating in the blockade due to the Hamas's (a recognized terrorist organization) control of the territory.

Given the rockets that CONTINUE being fired from Gaza into Israel, THAT is why they are legally within their rights to impose a blockade.

That said, what Obama should do is step in the middle. State that all aid be sent to the Israeli port on the condition that all food and medical supplies be inspected and released within 2-3 days.
 
tom prendergast said:
Let's see you defend that fucker Avidor Lieberman as well. Whilst you are about it, maybe you can justify the use of white phosphorus on civilians in Gaza. That is especially ironic as the Nazis used the same thing on London and Coventry in WW2.
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LMAO... so now it is up to me to 'defend' every action of Israel or Lieberman?



Tell you what... how about you defend the persistent rocket attacks from Gaza into Israel. Because if THAT were to stop, then the blockade would not be necessary.

Please link to the use of white phosphorus.
 
Superfreak said:
1) As I stated earlier, Israel would have been smarter to wait until the ships were in territorial water.

2) That said, when we had a blockade around Japan, we were also in International waters.

3) They did not 'attack' the ships. Had they attacked them, they would be sunk. They boarded the ships after repeated attempts to divert them from attempting to run the blockade were ignored. They had the chance to divert to the port in Israel, they knew they were not going to be allowed past the blockade.

4) Go watch the videos of the Israeli's landing on the ship. They were attacked before their feet hit the ground. This entire event was a set up by the 'humanitarian' people who were looking for a confrontation. They got what they went seeking.

5) The cement is banned due to Hamas using the cement for fortifying positions. Again... it was KNOWN that this was banned, yet they brought it anyway. Again it demonstrates the desire of the 'humanitarians' for confrontation.
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So if cement is banned how do they repair all the buildings destroyed by the IDF last year? They were trying to board in international waters so they had every right to defend themselves, by any means necessary. Why the fuck does Israel get to say what the rules are anyway? I notice that you don't even try to defend the use of white phosphorus in a densely populated area.
 
charver said:
With the US government already suggesting that the Israeli government are perfectly capable of organising a fair and impartial enquiry into the actions of the Israeli government that doesn't look like happening any time soon.
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It'll be the U.S.S. Liberty all over again.
 
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Superfreak said:
LMAO... so now it is up to me to 'defend' every action of Israel or Lieberman?



Tell you what... how about you defend the persistent rocket attacks from Gaza into Israel. Because if THAT were to stop, then the blockade would not be necessary.

Please link to the use of white phosphorus.
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There is a simple principle called proportionality which Israel do not seem to begin to understand. Over 1500 people were killed by the IDF in Gaza, at least a third being children, how many Israelis were killed by rockets? I am not even sure that it is in double figures.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2009/jan/19/gaza-phosphorus-victim

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=18024
 
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tom prendergast said:
So if cement is banned how do they repair all the buildings destroyed by the IDF last year? They were trying to board in international waters so they had every right to defend themselves, by any means necessary. Why the fuck does Israel get to say what the rules are anyway? I notice that you don't even try to defend the use of white phosphorus in a densely populated area.
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1) Yes, cement is useful in building homes, and if Hamas would use the cement for that purpose, then I bet Israel would allow it in

2) Again... the 'humanitarians' KNEW they were trying to run a blockade. They KNEW going in that they would be boarded if they went through with their plan. They KNEW that Israel had offered them safe transport to a different port and that the aid would be allowed through... but the 'humanitarians' were not their for providing aid. They were there seeking confrontation. Which is precisely what they got. Even when the boarding process begins... it could have remained peaceful... but the 'humanitarians' immediately decided to fight instead. Funny how only one ship had the violence and the other five did not. But yeah, that was because of Israel.

3) I asked you for a link to the white phosphorus. You have yet to provide it. I have also stated that I am not here to justify everything Israel has ever done, nor do I think Israel is without blame here. But you on the other hand refuse to acknowledge that Egypt is ALSO part of the blockade, also does not want Hamas gaining more weapons, and you refuse to admit this entire incident occurred because 'humanitarians' wanted to start a fight.
 
AssHatZombie said:
I say when you illegally commandeer a boat with guns in hand you should expect to get your ass beat a little.

Your refusal to see Israel as the obvious agressor indicates mental dysfunction.
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LMAO.... it is YOUR refusal to see that it is NOT Israel that was the aggressor.

The 'humanitarians' had every opportunity to deliver their 'aid' to Gaza. They chose instead to confront the blockade. They KNEW going in that they would not be allowed through. The organizer of the flotilla is a group suspected of providing weapons to Hamas. There was NO chance those ships were going to be allowed to dock in Gaza without an inspection of the ships. NONE.

and EVERYONE knew it.

Also... when you assault men with guns... odds are some of you are going to die.
 
AssHatZombie said:
I say when you illegally commandeer a boat with guns in hand you should expect to get your ass beat a little.

Your refusal to see Israel as the obvious agressor indicates mental dysfunction.
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LMAO.... it is YOUR refusal to see that it is NOT Israel that was the aggressor.

The 'humanitarians' had every opportunity to deliver their 'aid' to Gaza. They chose instead to confront the blockade. They KNEW going in that they would not be allowed through. The organizer of the flotilla is a group suspected of providing weapons to Hamas. There was NO chance those ships were going to be allowed to dock in Gaza without an inspection of the ships. NONE.

and EVERYONE knew it.


Also... when you go looking for a fight and are hell bent on finding one... odds are... you will find what you seek
 
Superfreak said:
1) Yes, cement is useful in building homes, and if Hamas would use the cement for that purpose, then I bet Israel would allow it in

2) Again... the 'humanitarians' KNEW they were trying to run a blockade. They KNEW going in that they would be boarded if they went through with their plan. They KNEW that Israel had offered them safe transport to a different port and that the aid would be allowed through... but the 'humanitarians' were not their for providing aid. They were there seeking confrontation. Which is precisely what they got. Even when the boarding process begins... it could have remained peaceful... but the 'humanitarians' immediately decided to fight instead. Funny how only one ship had the violence and the other five did not. But yeah, that was because of Israel.

3) I asked you for a link to the white phosphorus. You have yet to provide it. I have also stated that I am not here to justify everything Israel has ever done, nor do I think Israel is without blame here. But you on the other hand refuse to acknowledge that Egypt is ALSO part of the blockade, also does not want Hamas gaining more weapons, and you refuse to admit this entire incident occurred because 'humanitarians' wanted to start a fight.
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I am more than aware of the Egyptians closing the border previously, I believe that Rafah is now open again.

I just gave you two links to the use of white phosphorus in Gaza. You can also read what the Jerusalem Post has to say about it.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177072
 
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tom prendergast said:
I am more than aware of the Egyptians closing the border previously, I believe that Rafah is now open again.

I just gave you two links to the use of white phosphorus in Gaza.
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I read the AI report on the use. Ok... now tell me why it is that I am supposed to defend its use.

As I stated, I am not here to defend every bad thing Israel has done, nor am I here to suggest they are not partly at fault for what has gone on between them and Palestine over the past four decades+.

So save your faux outrage for someone else.
 
tom prendergast said:
I've already seen it and I think they are perfectly entitled to take any action to defend their ship in international waters. Anyway who is to say that the footage is authentic, it could very well be faked. The Israelis have a long record of lying and obfuscation going right back to the USS Liberty.
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yeah, that must be it. As I thought, you have nothing.
 
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