VP Pick

Darla said:
No, that's not true though. I am not jumping on his bandwagon. Other than Edwards, I have longed viewed him as the best possible VP pick, but only becasue, well, who else?

I know I will take a huge amount of heat over this, and that there are problems, but there is a part of me that believes that Hillary makes this unbeatable and blows McCain out of the water as far as excitement and star power go. But, I would be concerned over the level of just hatred expressed by some in the netroots. How widespread that is I don't know.
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That's the main argument for choosing Biden is "Who Else?"

I'm sure you would oppose it for personal reasons, but a Unity ticket would probably be the best tactical decision he could make vote-for-vote.

For every liberal activist like yourself he loses, he would gain 2 or 3 independents or Republicans.
 
Epicurus said:
That's the main argument for choosing Biden is "Who Else?"

I'm sure you would oppose it, but a Unity ticket would probably be the best tactical decision he could make vote-for-vote.

For every liberal activist like yourself he loses, he would gain 2 or 3 independents or Republicans.
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I thought that by Unity ticket you meant Hillary. If you mean a Hagel or any Republican, you can get f’d basically Epic, sorry. Man that is so like the “liberal media”. Shoving the idea down the American public’s throat that a Democrat needs to nominate a Republican in order to win. Not going to happen.
 
Obama already has high profile people from the other side of the aisle endorsing him.

We dont need a republican on the ticket to win in a time when Republicans are not well though of by the vast majority of Americans.
 
Did you know that Biden is mentioned at the beginning of English Comp books in a warning about plagiarism?

It's funny stuff.
 
Epicurus said:
I genuinely believe that nominating Hillary Clinton would have lost the Democrats this election.

As for the comments about learning to hate Obama, I'm sure you see that on an activist level, but among average voters (even Republicans) Obama has the best bipartisan reputation a Democratic presidential candidate has had in some time. Similar situation with McCain among non-politico Democrats.
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I know that you believe it, but it doesn't make it true. Look at past history. The Republicans always, without fail, find a way to make their supporters hate the Democratic candidate.

In April, Obama had a positive favorability rating of 57%. It's now at 37%. That's not coincidence. For comparison's sake, Hillary Clinton has a positive favorability rating of 46%. He's less liked than Clinton.
 
Epicurus said:
I genuinely believe that nominating Hillary Clinton would have lost the Democrats this election.

As for the comments about learning to hate Obama, I'm sure you see that on an activist level, but among average voters (even Republicans) Obama has the best bipartisan reputation a Democratic presidential candidate has had in some time. Similar situation with McCain among non-politico Democrats.

It is a welcome relief from the stark polarization of lightning rod candidates like Kerry and Bush in '04.
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I agree with your assesment Epi. I'm not voting for Obama but I don't dislike him or think he's a bad person. I like his message of hope and think he would be a great inspiration if he become's President. My experiences talking to non-activists is purely antedotal but similar to yours. Republicans I know don't like his policies but have no problem with him and Democrats I've talked to like and respect McCain even if disagreeing with his policies.

So while of course the two parties are going to do everything they can to win as you said both parties picked candidates who aren't as polarizing as in the past.
 
Darla said:
I thought that by Unity ticket you meant Hillary. If you mean a Hagel or any Republican, you can get f’d basically Epic, sorry. Man that is so like the “liberal media”. Shoving the idea down the American public’s throat that a Democrat needs to nominate a Republican in order to win. Not going to happen.
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He doesn't HAVE to do much to win. Regardless of who he chooses it will be hard to fuck up too badly. That's why I don't understand why you guys are so opposed to choosing a Republican VP. It would not give Republicans anymore power than they already had, and would be a great symbol of bipartisanship.

My generation would really like a Unity ticket. Many of them very much bought into the Obama idea of postpartisanship.
 
cawacko said:
I agree with your last sentence though I wouldn't use hate as in personal hate just that they will be against whoever the opponent is.

The day I see a political party come out and praise their opponents Presidental or VP selection is the day I join Fred Sanford's wife Elizabeth in heaven.
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For the hardcore Republican base, it is actual personal hate. Wearing purple band-aids to ridicule the combat service of John Kerry in Vietnam comes from personal hatred. The Swiftboat guys gained traction by tapping into this.

John McCain saying that Obama would prefer to lose a war to win and election is designed to tap into this hatred. It's intense personal animus. That's how they drive their operation.
 
Dungheap said:
I know that you believe it, but it doesn't make it true. Look at past history. The Republicans always, without fail, find a way to make their supporters hate the Democratic candidate.

In April, Obama had a positive favorability rating of 57%. It's now at 37%. That's not coincidence. For comparison's sake, Hillary Clinton has a positive favorability rating of 46%. He's less liked than Clinton.
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Wow. Well, there are the facts. I don't know if talking to drunk chicks cawacko and epic meet at parties about Obama can stand up to the actual numbers?
 
Epicurus said:
He doesn't HAVE to do much to win. Regardless of who he chooses it will be hard to fuck up too badly. That's why I don't understand why you guys are so opposed to choosing a Republican VP. It would not give Republicans anymore power than they already had, and would be a great symbol of bipartisanship.

My generation would really like a Unity ticket. Many of them very much bought into the Obama idea of postpartisanship.
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You know what would be a great symbol of post-partisanship, the Republicans not running a candidate since their last president fucked things up so badly.
 
Anecdotal story about the Difference between Activists and Normal People:

I was recently at a party where I met an organizer from national College Republicans organization. He seemed like a nice enough guy at first, and we started discussing politics over our beers.

I was teasing him about having to support McCain this time around. He was clearly having some trouble getting excited for his candidate. When I asked him about Obama, though, it was like someone had insulted his mother.

"We've gotta keep that n****r out of the White House," he said.

"Okay, well I gotta go," was my response.
 
Dungheap said:
For the hardcore Republican base, it is actual personal hate. Wearing purple band-aids to ridicule the combat service of John Kerry in Vietnam comes from personal hatred. The Swiftboat guys gained traction by tapping into this.

John McCain saying that Obama would prefer to lose a war to win and election is designed to tap into this hatred. It's intense personal animus. That's how they drive their operation.
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I still view it differently. To me its just extreme partisanship to win. Politics is about winning and that's what political parties exist to do.

You can use a sports analogy if you would like when athletes say I hate my opponent when I'm on the field and don't hate them off it.
 
Desh said:
Obama already has high profile people from the other side of the aisle endorsing him.

We dont need a republican on the ticket to win in a time when Republicans are not well though of by the vast majority of Americans.
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Yeah really Desh. We are talking about a time when Republicans don’t’ want to call themselves Republicans and whoever that R Senator in Minnesota is (forgot his name), is being reported as being pissed off that his party is holding their convention in his state, because he’s in a tough reelection battle, and he is quoted as saying that if the convention wasn’t in his state, he wouldn’t go. But in that atmosphere, of course the Dems should put a Republican on the ticket. LOl You can’t make this stuff up.
 
Darla said:
Wow. Well, there are the facts. I don't know if talking to drunk chicks cawacko and epic meet at parties about Obama can stand up to the actual numbers?
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Wow. Wish I'd seen this before I posted a story of talking to someone at a party as evidence. :)
 
Epicurus said:
Anecdotal story about the Difference between Activists and Normal People:

I was recently at a party where I met an organizer from national College Republicans organization. He seemed like a nice enough guy at first, and we started discussing politics over our beers.

I was teasing him about having to support McCain this time around. He was clearly having some trouble getting excited for his candidate. When I asked him about Obama, though, it was like someone had insulted his mother.

"We've gotta keep that n****r out of the White House," he said.

"Okay, well I gotta go," was my response.
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I'm sad to hear that anyone of that generation is still in that mindset.
 
cawacko said:
I still view it differently. To me its just extreme partisanship to win. Politics is about winning and that's what political parties exist to do.

You can use a sports analogy if you would like when athletes say I hate my opponent when I'm on the field and don't hate them off it.
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While fans kick the shit out of each other in the stands. I'm not saying that McCain hates Obama. What I am saying is that McCain and his campaign team and 527s promote intense hatred among his supporters towards Obama. It's the same thing Bush did with Kerry in '04.
 
Darla said:
Wow. Well, there are the facts. I don't know if talking to drunk chicks cawacko and epic meet at parties about Obama can stand up to the actual numbers?
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Well geez, there of course have been no liberals that have become disappointed in the last several months based on FISA rulings or foreign policy talk. No people on this board voting for Obama have become upset with him at all. Remember BAC said its a movement and its going to be a landslide three months ago. Is it the Republicans fault that BAC feels the way he does today?

Is really a shock that the more the public see's a candidate the less they like about them?
 
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