What about freedom FROM religion?

Frank Apisa said:
Interesting op ed piece about freedom FROM religion in the Washington Post this morning. I recommend it, although it may be behind a paywall.

It is by Kate Cohen and is titled, “Why are we so tolerant of churchy bigotry?”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/03/06/religious-bigotry-lgbtq-homophobia/

Here’s a taste of it:

Are we just so accustomed to the anti-LGBTQ stances of conservative religious institutions that they don’t even register? Are we so used to church-sponsored homophobia that we ignore the vast, forbidding landscape of prejudice while celebrating the tiniest signs of change?

It made the news, for example, when Pope Francis told the Associated Press recently that homosexuality should not be criminalized, as it is in 67 countries, and urged bishops around the world to recognize everyone’s dignity. Amen.

He noted, however, that homosexuality is still a sin. The Catholic Church will keep calling it a sin, and urging sinners to repent, and it will keep refusing to recognize same-sex marriage or to condone adoption by same-sex parents, but in a way that also totally recognizes their dignity!

(Not for nothing: Where does the pope think those countries first got the idea that homosexuality should be a crime?)

(snip)

The Episcopal Church, for example, now officially sanctions same-sex marriage. And the Albany diocese — well, it’s working on it. A statement on the Episcopal Church website notes: “As with all spiritual journeys, everyone walks at their own pace. Some Episcopal congregations are actively involved in LGBTQ ministry and their arms are open wide; others are more reserved, but their doors are still open to all; some are still wrestling with their beliefs and feelings.”


(snip)

Now, let’s pretend that instead of talking about LGBTQ people, the church was talking about congregations “wrestling with their beliefs and feelings” about Black people. Would our spirit of patient forbearance extend to that?

Not too long ago, many American Christian institutions defended slavery, pointing to Bible verses such as Ephesians 6:5: “Slaves, obey your masters.” They then battled integration and interracial marriage, arguing that God meant for the races to be separated. Bob Jones University, from which the founders of Pensacola Christian College graduated, prohibited interracial dating until 2000.

Homophobic policies are no different — except in that, apparently, people are still more accepting of them.

One day, maybe, the Catholic Church and the Church of England will treat its LGBTQ congregants as equals. Maybe even Pensacola Christian College will evolve. In the meantime, let’s not be fooled by the “religious belief” talk: It’s just old-fashioned bigotry.
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I'm all for freedom from religion. Would you consider the warmists to be a religion or is that just a social opinion to you? What about the trans movement...social phenomenon or religion?

How about no tolerance for intolerance? Is that just social expression or cultish behavior?
 
Frank Apisa said:
What the fuck???

Are you nuts as well as stupid?

Where have you ever seen me suggest anything about the Constitutionality of the issue?

Wake the fuck up.

My arguments HAVE merit. You are just not up to the job of understanding what they are.
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here we go, the infantile ranting of a liberal who isn't getting his way after having his arguments dismissed as having no merit.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
I already assumed that, but will never waste the opportunity to take a shot at the present horrific SCOTUS.

The founders are at fault--serious fault--for promising freedom of religion instead of the far more necessary freedom from religion.
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maybe YOU should go back to junior high, then. there is zero fault for their wording..........if you understood english and history, you'd get it.
 
IBDaMann said:
I realize that you are a standard undereducated leftist who has no reading comprehension so you get a pass.

We're discussing religious groups, not political parties. I'm sure you haven't the vaguest clue what the difference is but you should be able to ask someone.
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Responding to a post that raised political association. Sorry you missed that. You should learn to read for comprehension.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I suppose you think the church needs enlightenment from atheists as to doctrine......
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No, atheists are only about 6 percent of the population and have no standing to dictate religious theology, custom, or practice.

Opposition to slavery, to racism, to exclusion of gays came from within the practicing congregations of Quakers, Anglicans, Presbyterians, et al.

The Catholic Church of Quebec lost 90 percent of it's parishioners because the bishops and priests did not change and evolve in the way the active parishioners desired.
 
Frank Apisa said:
Interesting op ed piece about freedom FROM religion in the Washington Post this morning. I recommend it, although it may be behind a paywall.

It is by Kate Cohen and is titled, “Why are we so tolerant of churchy bigotry?”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/03/06/religious-bigotry-lgbtq-homophobia/

Here’s a taste of it:

Are we just so accustomed to the anti-LGBTQ stances of conservative religious institutions that they don’t even register? Are we so used to church-sponsored homophobia that we ignore the vast, forbidding landscape of prejudice while celebrating the tiniest signs of change?

It made the news, for example, when Pope Francis told the Associated Press recently that homosexuality should not be criminalized, as it is in 67 countries, and urged bishops around the world to recognize everyone’s dignity. Amen.

He noted, however, that homosexuality is still a sin. The Catholic Church will keep calling it a sin, and urging sinners to repent, and it will keep refusing to recognize same-sex marriage or to condone adoption by same-sex parents, but in a way that also totally recognizes their dignity!

(Not for nothing: Where does the pope think those countries first got the idea that homosexuality should be a crime?)

(snip)

The Episcopal Church, for example, now officially sanctions same-sex marriage. And the Albany diocese — well, it’s working on it. A statement on the Episcopal Church website notes: “As with all spiritual journeys, everyone walks at their own pace. Some Episcopal congregations are actively involved in LGBTQ ministry and their arms are open wide; others are more reserved, but their doors are still open to all; some are still wrestling with their beliefs and feelings.”


(snip)

Now, let’s pretend that instead of talking about LGBTQ people, the church was talking about congregations “wrestling with their beliefs and feelings” about Black people. Would our spirit of patient forbearance extend to that?

Not too long ago, many American Christian institutions defended slavery, pointing to Bible verses such as Ephesians 6:5: “Slaves, obey your masters.” They then battled integration and interracial marriage, arguing that God meant for the races to be separated. Bob Jones University, from which the founders of Pensacola Christian College graduated, prohibited interracial dating until 2000.

Homophobic policies are no different — except in that, apparently, people are still more accepting of them.

One day, maybe, the Catholic Church and the Church of England will treat its LGBTQ congregants as equals. Maybe even Pensacola Christian College will evolve. In the meantime, let’s not be fooled by the “religious belief” talk: It’s just old-fashioned bigotry.
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even the secular society is against child grooming.

you people are pedo normalizing freaks.
 
Cypress said:
Opposition to slavery, to racism, to exclusion of gays came from within the practicing congregations of Quakers, Anglicans, Presbyterians, et al.
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This does not mean atheists were somehow NOT against slavery. But we weren't allowed to be open and visible in the past. There's even some modes of thought that maybe Lincoln was an atheist (or at least not necessarily a Christian). He apparently was open in his youth about his lack of faith.

(Just trying to keep logical consistency to the debate point)
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Go ahead and demand freedom from the WOKE Religion and then watch how you are destroyed for your lack of obedience.
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Okay...I DEMAND freedom from the "WOKE religion."

I DEMAND IT.

Now...when do I get destroyed for my lack of obedience?
 
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