What If the Dollar Falls?

[Into the Night]

China has larger public debt than we do, with no outside financing of that public debt. Worse yet, they have repeated technical defaults. The only thing keeping them from collapsing is their currency controls forcing their huge national savings to be invested in the public debt.

If they give up their currency controls they will be in serious trouble.

China does have some outside financing of it's debt (just like any government debt).
You are correct, however, that China is economically much worse off than the federal government is right now.
All fiat currency is 'currency control'.

China is in serious trouble. Because it's government cannot tax what it owns, and it owns a lot of markets (communism), they have no revenue to keep anything going. They are out of options.
So far they have attempted to build cities with no one to live in them, build mega projects like dams on the yellow river (that are failing, including the Three Gorges dam), break the promise of elderly care for all, entice people to buy products they don't want, etc.
The result? The people of China are now saving their wealth from this disaster in any way they can. If they have the ability to, they are fleeing the country and taking their wealth with them by hook or by crook. Money velocity is incredibly low in China. They are in economic depression, and their government is STILL trying to build it's way out of it using the markets they own.
The government of China has now sent out thugs they call 'police' to bring these refugees to heel.

The days of peace in China is coming to an end. That government is literally building the army that will defeat them. China IS collapsing.

 

[Into the Night]

faith should not be restored in fiat currency.

it's always totalitarianism.

quit sucking banker dick and choose humanity over genociders, dickhole.

Money is money. It does not matter what currency is used. If people accept it as money, there is no problem.

 

[Kamala Trump]

Money is money. It does not matter what currency is used. If people accept it as money, there is no problem.

it matters if it's sound or not.

fiat currency is a tyrannical insane scheme.

it;s over, banker cocksniff.

 

[Into the Night]

it matters if it's sound or not.

Oddly enough, it doesn't.

fiat currency is a tyrannical insane scheme.

No, it is just a currency. As long as people accept it as money, it continues to be a currency.

it;s over, banker cocksniff.

I don't work for any bank, dumbass. I already told you what my business is.

 

[Walt]

The dollar itself was originally a unit of weight (nominally 1/20th of an ounce of fine gold). The gold itself was the currency. It was the medium of exchange (making it a representation of value), and using standards like units being equivalent to 1/20th of an ounce, it had a unit of account. In other words, gold had the two characteristics of all money (fiat or not). It held value (you could use it as a medium of exchange), and it acted as a unit of account (you could set a price with it).

Once again Night is making stuff up. Dollar refers to the German word thaler or valley. There was a valley in what is now the Czech Republic that produced very thick SILVER coins. This is very important, the dollar/thaler/peso were originally silver coins, not gold coins. While its exact amount has changed from coin to coin, it was usually a little less than an ounce of silver.

America was historically on the silver, not gold standard. It is nearly impossible to produce a 1/20th of an ounce gold coin, and such a coin has a very large valley to a pre-industrial person. Gold coins are not very usable to most people.

If you want to know what an original dollar coin looks like, look at a casino chip. Casinos, like just about everybody else, used silver dollar coins. When they started running low on those, they started using plastic casino chips which were made the same size as silver dollar coins.

 

[Kamala Trump]

Oddly enough, it doesn't.

No, it is just a currency. As long as people accept it as money, it continues to be a currency.

I don't work for any bank, dumbass. I already told you what my business is.

it does actually.

the power to create a currency with no relation to real value is too corrupting a power.

it's totalitarianism and very stupid and destructive.

 

[Walt]

it matters if it's sound or not.

fiat currency is a tyrannical insane scheme.

it;s over, banker cocksniff.

What would be insane would be trying to back a $100 trillion economy with $5 trillion worth of gold. It just does not work. Imagine being dependent on one single metal for our economy. It would be a disaster.

The whole world uses fiat currency for a reason. No one cares that you do not like it.

 

[Into the Night]

Once again Night is making stuff up.

Not at all. The dollar was a unit of weight equal to 1/20th of an ounce of fine gold.

Dollar refers to the German word thaler or valley.

No, it doesn't. Only the Thaler refers to the Thaler. The word 'dollar' does come from the word 'Thaler' though, even if they are different values. The Thaler was also a unit of weight (in silver). These coins would buy you anything you wanted anywhere in Europe, since they were silver.

There was a valley in what is now the Czech Republic that produced very thick SILVER coins.

But not dollars.

This is very important, the dollar/thaler/peso were originally silver coins, not gold coins.

The dollar is not the peso. The Thaler is not the dollar or the peso.

While its exact amount has changed from coin to coin, it was usually a little less than an ounce of silver.

The amount didn't change for the same weight. Europe does not use ounces (and didn't at the time either).

America was historically on the silver, not gold standard.

It was on BOTH. See the Constitution of the United States.

It is nearly impossible to produce a 1/20th of an ounce gold coin,

It's easy. You can buy them today.
https://www.moneymetals.com/1-20-oz-gold-coin/263

and such a coin has a very large valley to a pre-industrial person.

Try English. It works better.

Gold coins are not very usable to most people.

They are perfectly usable. You can even have modern credit systems on them.

If you want to know what an original dollar coin looks like, look at a casino chip

Casino chips were never dollars, not even the 'dollar' silver coins casinos used to use.

Casinos, like just about everybody else, used silver dollar coins.

Casinos never did. They used 'silver dollar' tokens made of bronze and nickel, at least until the dollar fell far enough it wasn't feasible anymore. Those tokens could ONLY be use in that casino.

When they started running low on those, they started using plastic casino chips which were made the same size as silver dollar coins.

They didn't run low on them. The dollar fell so far that the casinos simply stopped using them. Further, coins in general are no longer used in casino gaming now. Most casinos have closed their hard count rooms for good. They were dangerous and noisy. Only the soft count rooms run now.

 

[Into the Night]

it does actually.

Nope. Makes no difference. Money is money, even if it is fiat money.

the power to create a currency with no relation to real value is too corrupting a power.

Money is real value, even fiat money. Like any money, you can use it as a medium of exchange.

it's totalitarianism and very stupid and destructive.

Not in and of itself, no. What is stupid and destructive is governments spending too much, taxing too much, and borrowing too much.

 

[Into the Night]

What would be insane would be trying to back a $100 trillion economy with $5 trillion worth of gold. It just does not work. Imagine being dependent on one single metal for our economy. It would be a disaster.

Whole economies using just a single metal as the currency has already worked.

The whole world uses fiat currency for a reason.

Yes. That reason was that every nation in the world could no longer afford standardizing on a precious metal such as silver or gold. They were all broke. That took place in the 70's, once Nixon removed the gold standard entirely from the dollar.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work. Several fiat currencies have already collapsed. The dollar is not immune.

No one cares that you do not like it.

You don't get to speak for everyone. Omniscience fallacy.

 

[Kamala Trump]

Nope. Makes no difference. Money is money, even if it is fiat money.

Money is real value, even fiat money. Like any money, you can use it as a medium of exchange.

Not in and of itself, no. What is stupid and destructive is governments spending too much, taxing too much, and borrowing too much.

it does make a difference you idiot.

it having actual value tied to something real keeps it from being created past all semblance to reality.

nice try, banker cocksnack.

in fact, it's such a flaw that humanity should return to a barter system if monkeys like you won't quit your bullshit.

 

[Kamala Trump]

Fiat currency is totalitarianism.

 

[Kamala Trump]

what if i could force the whole world to use money i printed in my basement?!

 

[Into the Night]

it does make a difference you idiot.

it having actual value tied to something real keeps it from being created past all semblance to reality.

No. Money is money. It doesn't matter if it's gold, silver, paper, or computer bits. All money has value (you can use it as a medium of exchange) and all money is a unit of account (you can set a price with it).

Let's just take gold as an example:

You can't eat gold. You can't fuel your car with gold. You can't build your house or an office building with gold. An aircraft made of gold is too heavy to fly (and horrifically expensive!).
But you can use gold as a currency. Like any money, it has value (you can us it as a medium of exchange), and it has a unit of account (you can set a price with it).

in fact, it's such a flaw that humanity should return to a barter system if monkeys like you won't quit your bullshit.

Go right ahead. No one is stopping you.

 

[Into the Night]

Fiat currency is totalitarianism.

No. It's just money.

 

[Into the Night]

what if i could force the whole world to use money i printed in my basement?!

Obviously, you can't. No government can force the whole world to use it's currency either.

 

[ptif219]

I know that. I'm asking why you think China won't manipulate their currency when dealing with the BRICS nations. That doesn't make any sense to me.

Brics will use the China currency as will other countries

 

[Kamala Trump]

No. Money is money. It doesn't matter if it's gold, silver, paper, or computer bits. All money has value (you can use it as a medium of exchange) and all money is a unit of account (you can set a price with it).

Let's just take gold as an example:

You can't eat gold. You can't fuel your car with gold. You can't build your house or an office building with gold. An aircraft made of gold is too heavy to fly (and horrifically expensive!).
But you can use gold as a currency. Like any money, it has value (you can us it as a medium of exchange), and it has a unit of account (you can set a price with it).

Go right ahead. No one is stopping you.

it does matter if you can count on it always being redeemble for something.

with fiat you cannot. governments fall. their faith and credit can become meaningless.

the con is over, captain fuckcheese.

you can finally stop lying.

 

[Kamala Trump]

No. It's just money.

reductionism word games.

a breezy attitude won't get you through it this time, soccer mom emulator.

 

[Kamala Trump]

Obviously, you can't. No government can force the whole world to use it's currency either.

they try and often succeed to large extents.\

wars are fought over which currency is used.

you appear to have no practical education whatsoever, for someone so compulsively verbose.