What's a Preacher to do?

maineman said:
I have never said that adultery was not a sin, or that murder was not a sin or that incest was not a sin. I happen to believe that the people who wrote the bible did not have all the right answers. I happen to believe that, in many cases, their writings were based upon beliefs that we now understand to be inaccurate. As I said, I am advocating that gays and lesbians be allowed to marry the people that they love. Many theologians WAY more learned than I am agree with that position. I am sorry that you don't.

I am not tossing out Mosaic law... I am not endorsing all of Mosaic law either. Which are YOU doing? Are you suggesting that it is ALL valid today or is some of it no longer valid? And if you ARE tossing out parts of what Moses said, who gives you the authority to pick and choose?
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LMAO....thanks dude, you just proved the hypocrisy of your beliefs. you are in fact placing yourself above god by claiming this is a sin and that is not a sin. that is not your place. you cannot simply cherry pick the law and then complain that i cherry pick the law. that is the very definition of intellectual dishonesty, you can't very well argue that i am wrong to pick and choose, which i don't, and then YOU pick and choose.

you throw out one law, why not throw them all out? you're placing your beliefs above god by claiming that homosexuality is not a sin, but the other moral behaviors are still sin. how come you have yet to address that unnatural acts? why do you keep falling back on the logical fallacy of appealing to authority? thats a pissign match, for everyone authority you have that says homosexuality is not a sin, i am positive i will have double that number that say it is a sin.

you're placed yourself in a pickle when you said incest is a sin because it is not biolically sound, e.g., unnatural, then i show you a BIBLE verse that says homosexuality is unnatural....how do you reconcile?
 
Yurt said:
LMAO....thanks dude, you just proved the hypocrisy of your beliefs. you are in fact placing yourself above god by claiming this is a sin and that is not a sin. that is not your place. you cannot simply cherry pick the law and then complain that i cherry pick the law. that is the very definition of intellectual dishonesty, you can't very well argue that i am wrong to pick and choose, which i don't, and then YOU pick and choose.

you throw out one law, why not throw them all out? you're placing your beliefs above god by claiming that homosexuality is not a sin, but the other moral behaviors are still sin. how come you have yet to address that unnatural acts? why do you keep falling back on the logical fallacy of appealing to authority? thats a pissign match, for everyone authority you have that says homosexuality is not a sin, i am positive i will have double that number that say it is a sin.

you're placed yourself in a pickle when you said incest is a sin because it is not biolically sound, e.g., unnatural, then i show you a BIBLE verse that says homosexuality is unnatural....how do you reconcile?
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why do you refuse to answer simple questions yurt? Are you standing by all 613 or not? I am not.
 
asked and answered mutliple times....more deflection and distraction...from the fact that god said homosexual sex is a perversion and unnatural act in both the OT and the NT.

i am not surprised you IGNORE the plain word of god i have repeatedly given you about the unnatural homosexual acts, to you, the word of god is FALSE and man made, thus can be changed at any time by anyone. you have claimed god allowed moses to put FALSE information in the bible...

i cannot help that you willfully ignore god's plain words and i cannot help that you willfully place yourself in such an exalted position that YOU have the power to now determine what is a sin and is not a sin.

people like you have existed since the beginning. they believe themselves above god, wiser than god, such that, they can take god's word and mold it to fit their agenda. you are neither new, nor novel. i wipe my hands and feet of you....
 
Yurt said:
asked and answered mutliple times....more deflection and distraction...from the fact that god said homosexual sex is a perversion and unnatural act in both the OT and the NT.

i am not surprised you IGNORE the plain word of god i have repeatedly given you about the unnatural homosexual acts, to you, the word of god is FALSE and man made, thus can be changed at any time by anyone. you have claimed god allowed moses to put FALSE information in the bible...

i cannot help that you willfully ignore god's plain words and i cannot help that you willfully place yourself in such an exalted position that YOU have the power to now determine what is a sin and is not a sin.

people like you have existed since the beginning. they believe themselves above god, wiser than god, such that, they can take god's word and mold it to fit their agenda. you are neither new, nor novel. i wipe my hands and feet of you....
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saying you have answered it and actually answering it are apparently two different things. You have yet to explain to me how some of the Mosaic laws are still valid while others are not. You have yet to explain to me why some of what Paul said is binding on us today while other of his statements are not.

I think that all Christians must struggle with interpreting the bible in today's world. It would seem that you don't bother. so be it.
 
i'm through with your lies and accusations regarding what i have said. i'm through discussing this with you....this is what you do every single time you get cornered, you CHANGE your story...you've already been caught once lying about what you are advocating....first it was that homosexuality is not a sin, then you are shown the error of your ways and you say....no wait, i am merely advocating their right to get married and then you add some insults etc....and are now back to homosexuality is not a sin, but the other moral laws that were handed down at the same time, bestiality, incest, adultyer, nope, those are still sins. you can't have it both ways, you either accept it entirely or you don't.

the thread is open for all to see, i am not going to waste my time defending what i have said against your lies maineman...may you be well
 
Yurt said:
i'm through with your lies and accusations regarding what i have said. i'm through discussing this with you....this is what you do every single time you get cornered, you CHANGE your story...you've already been caught once lying about what you are advocating....first it was that homosexuality is not a sin, then you are shown the error of your ways and you say....no wait, i am merely advocating their right to get married and then you add some insults etc....and are now back to homosexuality is not a sin, but the other moral laws that were handed down at the same time, bestiality, incest, adultyer, nope, those are still sins. you can't have it both ways, you either accept it entirely or you don't.

the thread is open for all to see, i am not going to waste my time defending what i have said against your lies maineman...may you be well
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I DON'T think that homosexuality is a sin. That is MY opinion...that is ME trying to make sense of the Bible with the overarching preeminence of the great commandment...

I DO think that gays should be allowed to marry. So does my denomination - the denomination that has been in America longer than any other.

I have been quite clear that I think that the Bible needs to be interpreted and not taken literally. You seem to want to have it both ways... you want to take it literally, but then blithely ignore hundreds of laws that such a literal interpretation would require you to follow.
 
Southern Man said:
So if gay sex is OK with you, maineman, then bestiality should also be OK. Right?
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no, he thinks that is still a sin...it is not for us to change his mind or heart.

not saying him, but there are going to be a lot of people as jesus proclaimed, that say, lord, lord, but we prophesied and preached your name...and he will tell them that he knows them not.

Dan7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
 
Yurt said:
more logical fallacies by MM...as if being the oldest denomination in america makes something more true :rolleyes:

using his logic, the indians are more right than he is
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not more true... just older.

Our conference minister gave some great testimony last month at the public hearing about the gay marriage law that was just passed and signed into law.

http://www.maineucc.org/news/Testimony on LD1020.htm

I especially like this section:

"The United Church of Christ has the distinction of being among the first to take a stand against slavery (1700); the first to ordain an African American (1785); the first on this continent to ordain a woman (1853); the first to ordain an openly gay man (1972); and in 2005 we became among the first and largest of the Protestant denominations to declare our support of Marriage Equality for same gendered couples at the biennial gathering of our national General Synod. In 2006 the Maine Conference of the United Church of Christ passed a resolution at our Annual Meeting in support of the Quality and Equality of Marriage, to which I will speak momentarily.

With due respect intended to all our ecumenical and interfaith partners, the United Church of Christ, beginning with the 1620 arrival of the Pilgrims, has been described as those who have arrived early and waited for others to join us. This is the resolved position of our denomination and of the Maine UCC judicatory as it pertains to the equality of marriage for same gendered couples.

It is a core value of this denomination as well as my own that the Gospel message of Jesus Christ is one of radical inclusivity. This value has guided us in our conversations, debate, and resolutions regarding marriage equality."
 
This is a fairytale ,LMAO talking religion with a guy that has done the things this guy has done is like pissing in the wind it don't work!!

I have asked this guy a number of times why he lets a difference in political opinion make him blow to the point where he wishes death and wants to talk about sex with children, so why in Gods good name would anyone even to humor him by talking religion with him, I truly feel for the people of the United Church of Christ,
 
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maineman said:
...the first to ordain an openly gay man (1972); and in 2005 we became among the first and largest of the Protestant denominations to declare our support of Marriage Equality for same gendered couples at the biennial gathering of our national General Synod. In 2006 the Maine Conference of the United Church of Christ passed a resolution at our Annual Meeting in support of the Quality and Equality of Marriage, to which I will speak momentarily.

With due respect intended to all our ecumenical and interfaith partners, the United Church of Christ, beginning with the 1620 arrival of the Pilgrims, has been described as those who have arrived early and waited for others to join us. This is the resolved position of our denomination and of the Maine UCC judicatory as it pertains to the equality of marriage for same gendered couples.

It is a core value of this denomination as well as my own that the Gospel message of Jesus Christ is one of radical inclusivity. This value has guided us in our conversations, debate, and resolutions regarding marriage equality."[/I]
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We now the stance, we just don't understand how such an obvious sin is justified.
 
Jeff said:
This is a fairytale ,LMAO talking religion with a guy that has done the things this guy has done is like pissing in the wind it don't work!!

I have asked this guy a number of times why he lets a difference in political opinion make him blow to the point where he wishes death and wants to talk about sex with children, so why in Gods good name would anyone even to humor him by talking religion with him, I truly feel for the people of the United Church of Christ,
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No shit he's one fucked up dude along with the UCC. Its gotta be a hell of a money maker though...
 
Southern Man said:
No shit he's one fucked up dude along with the UCC. Its gotta be a hell of a money maker though...
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not all UCC believe as maineman and his kind....

Enough is Enough -- A UCC Church Pulls Out
Posted: Friday, January 06, 2006 at 2:49 am ET

A United Church of Christ congregation has voted to leave the denomination over the issue of homosexuality. Suffolk Christian Church in Virginia decided to leave the denomination after the UCC adopted policies favoring the ordination of practicing homosexuals and the blessing of same-sex unions.

...

The issue of homosexuality has become the most divisive issue to confront the so-called "mainline" Protestant denominations in recent decades. The decision of the Suffolk congregation is but a sign of things to come -- and not only within the United Church of Christ.

In reality, the issue of homosexuality is forcing these denominations -- and churches -- to make crucial decisions on the basic issues of biblical authority and interpretation, along with a host of related theological concerns. The endorsement of homosexual behavior and relationships requires a rejection of clear and unambiguous teachings of the Bible. Furthermore, the endorsement of what the Bible clearly identifies as sin corrupts the Gospel itself.

http://www.albertmohler.com/blog_read.php?id=442
 
Yurt said:
not all UCC believe as maineman and his kind....

Enough is Enough -- A UCC Church Pulls Out
Posted: Friday, January 06, 2006 at 2:49 am ET

A United Church of Christ congregation has voted to leave the denomination over the issue of homosexuality. Suffolk Christian Church in Virginia decided to leave the denomination after the UCC adopted policies favoring the ordination of practicing homosexuals and the blessing of same-sex unions.

...

The issue of homosexuality has become the most divisive issue to confront the so-called "mainline" Protestant denominations in recent decades. The decision of the Suffolk congregation is but a sign of things to come -- and not only within the United Church of Christ.

In reality, the issue of homosexuality is forcing these denominations -- and churches -- to make crucial decisions on the basic issues of biblical authority and interpretation, along with a host of related theological concerns. The endorsement of homosexual behavior and relationships requires a rejection of clear and unambiguous teachings of the Bible. Furthermore, the endorsement of what the Bible clearly identifies as sin corrupts the Gospel itself.

http://www.albertmohler.com/blog_read.php?id=442
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That's good that there are some sane people still left. It also shows that maineman is full of shit on this issue.
 
maineman said:
I DON'T think that homosexuality is a sin. That is MY opinion...that is ME trying to make sense of the Bible with the overarching preeminence of the great commandment...

I DO think that gays should be allowed to marry. So does my denomination - the denomination that has been in America longer than any other.

I have been quite clear that I think that the Bible needs to be interpreted and not taken literally. You seem to want to have it both ways... you want to take it literally, but then blithely ignore hundreds of laws that such a literal interpretation would require you to follow.
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Okay, I have to ask, why don't you think homosexuality is a sin? Clearly in the Word of God it states that homosexuality IS a sin. How can you state that it is not? Is this your opinion simply because you don't want to offend homosexuals?

You accused Yurt of cherry picking the Mosaic Laws but if you are going to state that homosexuality is not a sin, but other sins are sins then something is wrong.

Homosexuality is a sin just as telling lies is a sin or killing a human being or coveting your neighbor's ass... no matter how fine she looks. A sin is a sin.

I believe that a homosexual is sinning when living the life of a homosexual just as living in a sexual relationship with a woman who is not my wife would be sinning for me. You cannot say that it is sinful for a man and a woman to commit adultery and then say that it is not sinful for two men to have sexual relations with each other.

Sorry, but that does not compute.

Immie
 
Immanuel said:
Okay, I have to ask, why don't you think homosexuality is a sin? Clearly in the Word of God it states that homosexuality IS a sin. How can you state that it is not? Is this your opinion simply because you don't want to offend homosexuals?

You accused Yurt of cherry picking the Mosaic Laws but if you are going to state that homosexuality is not a sin, but other sins are sins then something is wrong.

Homosexuality is a sin just as telling lies is a sin or killing a human being or coveting your neighbor's ass... no matter how fine she looks. A sin is a sin.

I believe that a homosexual is sinning when living the life of a homosexual just as living in a sexual relationship with a woman who is not my wife would be sinning for me. You cannot say that it is sinful for a man and a woman to commit adultery and then say that it is not sinful for two men to have sexual relations with each other.

Sorry, but that does not compute.

Immie
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are you saying that YOU don't cherrypick Mosaic Law? Are you saying that you strictly follow all 613? And if not, why not?
 
A colleague of mine sent me this in an email today...it's an oldie but a goodie.

Dear Dr. Laura,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's law. I have learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as it suggests in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 10:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 20:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

A Fan
 
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