What's a Preacher to do?

maineman said:
why can't you answer a simple question, yurt?

if you do not obey all of the commandments and admonitions in the bible, why not? And what criteria do you use to chose those that you do NOT chose to obey?
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i've answered this question over and over. this is typical of your weak debate tactics. when you get cornered on issues i raise or ask, you go back to questions you've already ask and claim i never answered them...and ignore that which corners you.

it is clear you ignore the express words of the bible by proclaiming the act of homosexuality not a sin. you can't get it through your thick fucking skull that just because i don't keep all commandments that it DOES NOT mean i do not believe them to be sins. i've already answered you that i don't even know them all, but i would not raise myself up to call something god has clearly labeled a sin, NOT a sin. this is probably the 3rd time, consider it the last as i am not going to play your stupid games. the very fact you've gone circular shows me that you cannot defend your point and are now running from teh questions and issues i raised because you know that to address or answer them would defeat your points and beliefs.
 
Since you wussed out on the gay marriage thing I have another issue for you, maineman- how do you and the UCC justify abortion? :pke:
 
Southern Man said:
Since you wussed out on the gay marriage thing I have another issue for you, maineman- how do you and the UCC justify abortion? :pke:
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Same as they do Homo sex, make up new rules and lie, say God really meant this, its a sad day when a church, any church sells themselves out
 
Yurt said:
i've answered this question over and over. this is typical of your weak debate tactics. when you get cornered on issues i raise or ask, you go back to questions you've already ask and claim i never answered them...and ignore that which corners you.

it is clear you ignore the express words of the bible by proclaiming the act of homosexuality not a sin. you can't get it through your thick fucking skull that just because i don't keep all commandments that it DOES NOT mean i do not believe them to be sins. i've already answered you that i don't even know them all, but i would not raise myself up to call something god has clearly labeled a sin, NOT a sin. this is probably the 3rd time, consider it the last as i am not going to play your stupid games. the very fact you've gone circular shows me that you cannot defend your point and are now running from teh questions and issues i raised because you know that to address or answer them would defeat your points and beliefs.
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so... because you are unaware of all of the commandments Moses gave to you, you feel free to condemn people who violate the ones you know about, and don't even seem to worry one bit whether or not, in your ignorance, you yourself are violating other Mosaic commandments on a daily basis? I would think that you, more than anyone, would be aware of the tenet that ignorance of the law is no excuse. Let me ask you: do you think that God will accept your ignorance defense when it comes to your judgment day and He asks you why you have not kept certain Mosaic laws that you were unaware of?

I pointed out why, I felt that the law in the time of Moses condemned homosexuality, and that was because of a mistaken belief that man alone held the essence of life and any sexual activity not directly tied to attempted procreation was tantamount to murder. We now know that semen alone, if spilled in some activity other than sexual intercourse with a women who is ovulating, does NOT contain the essence of life and such spillage is NOT tantamount to murder.
 
maineman said:
so... because you are unaware of all of the commandments Moses gave to you, you feel free to condemn people who violate the ones you know about, and don't even seem to worry one bit whether or not, in your ignorance, you yourself are violating other Mosaic commandments on a daily basis? I would think that you, more than anyone, would be aware of the tenet that ignorance of the law is no excuse. Let me ask you: do you think that God will accept your ignorance defense when it comes to your judgment day and He asks you why you have not kept certain Mosaic laws that you were unaware of?

I pointed out why, I felt that the law in the time of Moses condemned homosexuality, and that was because of a mistaken belief that man alone held the essence of life and any sexual activity not directly tied to attempted procreation was tantamount to murder. We now know that semen alone, if spilled in some activity other than sexual intercourse with a women who is ovulating, does NOT contain the essence of life and such spillage is NOT tantamount to murder.
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here we go, maineman making stuff up and spinning madly around...i've made clear numerous times to you and to other posters in this thread I DO NOT CONDEMN anyone...but you are now going to spin the issue away onto me to deflect from the truth. this is NOT about condemning anyone, this solely about YOU and YOUR church rising above god to call something he clearly said is a sin, NOT a sin.

the second underlined clearly means the bible is then full of meadowmuffins....the bible is wrong if your beliefs are true...how can you believe a book that made a false statement? i now understand how you can rise above god and proclaim his laws no longer sins, because YOU believe god was mistaken about semen. you think you are better than god. or are we now to believe that god allowed moses to put FALSE information in the bible? you've really dug yourself a deep, deep and disturbing hole...

the bible makes it clear that it is the ACT of laying with a man like a woman, period.
 
Yurt said:
here we go, maineman making stuff up and spinning madly around...i've made clear numerous times to you and to other posters in this thread I DO NOT CONDEMN anyone...but you are now going to spin the issue away onto me to deflect from the truth. this is NOT about condemning anyone, this solely about YOU and YOUR church rising above god to call something he clearly said is a sin, NOT a sin.

the second underlined clearly means the bible is then full of meadowmuffins....the bible is wrong if your beliefs are true...how can you believe a book that made a false statement? i now understand how you can rise above god and proclaim his laws no longer sins, because YOU believe god was mistaken about semen. you think you are better than god. or are we now to believe that god allowed moses to put FALSE information in the bible? you've really dug yourself a deep, deep and disturbing hole...

the bible makes it clear that it is the ACT of laying with a man like a woman, period.
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first...you need to understand UCC polity. The denomination cannot proclaim anything for any church. Each church is autonomous. Some UCC churches in Maine will most certainly allow gay marriages to be performed, and others will not. My particular church has not even addressed the subject so I have no idea how they will decide.

The bible makes it clear that the act of having sex with a woman who is menstruating is just as great a sin as a man lying with a man. It also makes it clear that trimming the ends of your beard or shaving the sides of your head is a sin as well. It makes it clear that pruning trees in the seventh year is also a sin. The bible also makes it clear that eating pork or shellfish is a sin... did God allow Moses to write that stuff down if it really wasn't TRUE???

Again...if you are going to use Mosaic law as justification for not allowing gays to marry, then why are you not so vehement about those I mentioned or all of the rest of the 613 Mosaic laws?

Here is a clue for you: many Christians do not believe in the infallibility of the bible. Clearly, you either are one of them, but will not admit it, or you just prefer to remain ignorant about all the things that the bible tells you to do or not to do that you would prefer to continue doing - or not doing.
 
maineman said:
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The bible makes it clear that the act of having sex with a woman who is menstruating is just as great a sin as a man lying with a man. It also makes it clear that trimming the ends of your beard or shaving the sides of your head is a sin as well. It makes it clear that pruning trees in the seventh year is also a sin. The bible also makes it clear that eating pork or shellfish is a sin... did God allow Moses to write that stuff down if it really wasn't TRUE???

....
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Already addressed here: [ame="http://www.justplainpolitics.com/showpost.php?p=436964&postcount=60"]Just Plain Politics! - View Single Post - What's a Preacher to do?[/ame]

Why repeat lies when you've already been show to be a liar? *shrug*
 
maineman said:
first...you need to understand UCC polity. The denomination cannot proclaim anything for any church. Each church is autonomous. Some UCC churches in Maine will most certainly allow gay marriages to be performed, and others will not. My particular church has not even addressed the subject so I have no idea how they will decide.

The bible makes it clear that the act of having sex with a woman who is menstruating is just as great a sin as a man lying with a man. It also makes it clear that trimming the ends of your beard or shaving the sides of your head is a sin as well. It makes it clear that pruning trees in the seventh year is also a sin. The bible also makes it clear that eating pork or shellfish is a sin... did God allow Moses to write that stuff down if it really wasn't TRUE???

Again...if you are going to use Mosaic law as justification for not allowing gays to marry, then why are you not so vehement about those I mentioned or all of the rest of the 613 Mosaic laws?

Here is a clue for you: many Christians do not believe in the infallibility of the bible. Clearly, you either are one of them, but will not admit it, or you just prefer to remain ignorant about all the things that the bible tells you to do or not to do that you would prefer to continue doing - or not doing.
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i've already posted NT law concerning it, you're just going to ignore the bible and rewrite it in your image....

i have yet to encounter someone who claims sex during menstruation is no longer a sin...once again, more spin from maineman...why don't you start threads about it, you have no fucking clue what i believe or don't believe, so stop your whining about the other sins and focus on this one...you apparently believe that if you can break one, why not break them all and hell, why not abolish them all.

homosexuality is also mentioned as a sin in the NT, i don't believe the other laws (not all of them are "sins" they are just laws, i can't believe you're a preacher and don't know the difference between laws and sins) are mentioned again in the NT. i am not a scholar, but i do know that the NT says homosexuality is a sin, that is a fact, it is the act, period. no matter how much you love someone, once you complete the act, it is a sin. you are changing the bible to suit your agenda.
 
Yurt said:
i've already posted NT law concerning it, you're just going to ignore the bible and rewrite it in your image....

i have yet to encounter someone who claims sex during menstruation is no longer a sin...once again, more spin from maineman...why don't you start threads about it, you have no fucking clue what i believe or don't believe, so stop your whining about the other sins and focus on this one...you apparently believe that if you can break one, why not break them all and hell, why not abolish them all.

homosexuality is also mentioned as a sin in the NT, i don't believe the other laws (not all of them are "sins" they are just laws, i can't believe you're a preacher and don't know the difference between laws and sins) are mentioned again in the NT. i am not a scholar, but i do know that the NT says homosexuality is a sin, that is a fact, it is the act, period. no matter how much you love someone, once you complete the act, it is a sin. you are changing the bible to suit your agenda.
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NT "LAW"???? and you criticize MY exegesis???? And again... if you are going to hold up ONE passage from Paul and ask others to abide by it, why not hold up all the passages from Paul? Your hypocrisy knows no bounds, yurt. And if you read the passages from Leviticus that discuss this subject, you will see that the proscription against homosexuality is worded no differently than the proscription against many other things. And I would point you specifically to Leviticus 19:37, and ask you to explain how you blithely fail to obey that.
 
i've shown zero hypocrisy and you know it. you're just desperate and lashing out....

you have risen above god and declared something not a sin that is labeled a sin in both the OT and the NT....

there is nothing further for me to discuss with you on this matter. it is not for me to change your heart or mind from believing that you can call somethign a not a sin when it has expressly been called a sin. i do not rise up above god and declare that one does not have to abide by this or that, and that is a sin and that is not, i merely live my life as best i can and as sin free as i can.
 
Yurt said:
i've shown zero hypocrisy and you know it. you're just desperate and lashing out....

you have risen above god and declared something not a sin that is labeled a sin in both the OT and the NT....

there is nothing further for me to discuss with you on this matter. it is not for me to change your heart or mind from believing that you can call somethign a not a sin when it has expressly been called a sin. i do not rise up above god and declare that one does not have to abide by this or that, and that is a sin and that is not, i merely live my life as best i can and as sin free as i can.
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I am not desperate about ANYTHING yurt...I know how my denomination looks at it...I know how I look at it... and I know how YOU look at it. YOU are quick to condemn those who violate your favorite Mosaic law, but you don't seem to worry much about whether anyone - or you yourself, for that matter - violated any OTHER Mosaic law.

Similarly, you are, by your own admission, relatively ignorant of the entirety of Paul's writings, yet you know a lot about his views on homosexuality... what did Jesus say about that sort of thinking? something about a log in one's own eye....

You can claim that is not hypocrisy all you want...but if it walks like a duck...
 
and the lies from maineman keep rolling in...see how he just attacks and falsely claims i condemn people despite the fact i have repeatedly said i do not condemn anyone...nor can he cite to a single post where i have condemned someone....

another poster in this thread wished more were like me in not being so judgmental and condemning, i'll take those honest words over maineman's false accusations.

you shall know them by their fruits...
 
Yurt said:
and the lies from maineman keep rolling in...see how he just attacks and falsely claims i condemn people despite the fact i have repeatedly said i do not condemn anyone...nor can he cite to a single post where i have condemned someone....

another poster in this thread wished more were like me in not being so judgmental and condemning, i'll take those honest words over maineman's false accusations.

you shall know them by their fruits...
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so you don't condemn homosexuals? fine. embrace them. celebrate them. welcome them. let them live their lives as equal members of God's family.

edit: I would also suggest that if you call someone a "sinner", that most folks would call that a condemnation of sorts... so in that sense, every post where you call homosexuals sinners is a post where you have condemned someone.
 
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maineman said:
so you don't condemn homosexuals? fine. embrace them. celebrate them. welcome them. let them live their lives as equal members of God's family.

edit: I would also suggest that if you call someone a "sinner", that most folks would call that a condemnation of sorts... so in that sense, every post where you call homosexuals sinners is a post where you have condemned someone.
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i have never advocated not having them be a part of god's family. i do embrace homosexuals, i have family members who are. nice try.

so i guess you would welcome with open arms a murderer, an adulterer, a liar and tell them, hey, its cool, its not a sin....you've gone over the edge
 
Yurt said:
i have never advocated not having them be a part of god's family. i do embrace homosexuals, i have family members who are. nice try.

so i guess you would welcome with open arms a murderer, an adulterer, a liar and tell them, hey, its cool, its not a sin....you've gone over the edge
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do you have any family members who have ever been unfaithful to their spouses? Would you embrace them? Have you ever told a lie....like, say, about how old you are or where you have traveled to? Should you be shunn ed by God's family?

Do you not think that calling someone a sinner is a form of condemnation?
 
maineman said:
do you have any family members who have ever been unfaithful to their spouses? Would you embrace them? Have you ever told a lie....like, say, about how old you are or where you have traveled to? Should you be shunn ed by God's family?

Do you not think that calling someone a sinner is a form of condemnation?
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how many times are you going to deflect from the issue? how many times do i have to tell you this is NOT about calling them a sinner or condemning them, it is all about YOU saying what they are doing is NOT a sin.

how can you not see the difference between not condemning someone and saying something is not a sin? jesus told them that he without sin can cast the first stone, none did, he told her, neither do i condemn you, but go and sin no more...

11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
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jesus did not tell her that what she did or what they did was not a sin...you have placed yourself above jesus and god by proclaiming that which has been declared a sin, not a sin, the very same thing lucifer did in teh garden....please, open your eyes to what you are truly advocating
 
Yurt said:
how many times are you going to deflect from the issue? how many times do i have to tell you this is NOT about calling them a sinner or condemning them, it is all about YOU saying what they are doing is NOT a sin.

how can you not see the difference between not condemning someone and saying something is not a sin? jesus told them that he without sin can cast the first stone, none did, he told her, neither do i condemn you, but go and sin no more...



jesus did not tell her that what she did or what they did was not a sin...you have placed yourself above jesus and god by proclaiming that which has been declared a sin, not a sin, the very same thing lucifer did in teh garden....please, open your eyes to what you are truly advocating
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I am merely advocating that gays and lesbians be allowed to marry the people that they love. Many theologians WAY more learned than I am agree with that position. I am sorry that you don't.
 
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