Who is willing to go on record saying they believe the President can defy legal court orders?

[Jarod]

I think it shows what coequal means. One branch cannot push the other around.

So, even the Supreme Court cant tell the President not to deport? What is the difference?

The Congress cant make laws that the Executive must obey?

The President cant enforce those laws as he sees fit?

The Courts cant make the other branches follow the law?

These branches have certain duties that affect the others, and within those duties they can make the other branches obey.


Co-equal does not mean each branch can do as they see fit.

 

[Damocles]

So, even the Supreme Court cant tell the President not to deport? What is the difference?

The Congress cant make laws that the Executive must obey?

The President cant enforce those laws as he sees fit?

The Courts cant make the other branches follow the law?

I think that this kind of thing was proven back in the day after Andrew Jackson flat ignored SCOTUS and declared that the Executive has as much right to interpret the constitution as the Judicial.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

They cannot reverse the time he has spent in an El Savadore Prison without the Protections of the Untied States Constitution. Trump braggs about that.

I do believe, paid enough, El Salvador will take anyone.

Agreed. The US has done it before with Jihadists. The US provides them billions of dollars worth of aid and trade. Does Trump and the DOGE bros really care if the El Salvadorian government make all of those people disappear into the jungle? American citizen or not?

US Foreign Aid by Country 2025

worldpopulationreview.com

El Salvador $195M in 2025 Foreign Aid and Disbursements

Technical Difficulties

Through investment promotion, job training, and partnership with businesses, we are increasing employment opportunities for Salvadorans, particularly youth. Under the Central America Forward initiative, we have mobilized over $5.2 billion in private sector commitments to the region, including over $141 million deployed in El Salvador.

The Secret Prisons Where The US Held Its Terror Suspects

The CIA operated "black site" detention facilities in nations around the world, where it held and interrogted terror suspects in the aftermath of 9/11.

www.ibtimes.com

Cuba's Guantanamo Bay is the most well-known facility where the CIA committed ghastly acts of torture in recent years, but foreign terror suspects were also subjected to beatings, waterboarding and rectal feeding, among other brutal acts of violence, in secret sites across the globe. In some cases, the facilities in Cuba, Iraq, Lithuania, Thailand, Romania, Afghanistan and Poland are still in operation, more than six years after the Obama administration banned the enhanced interrogation tactics detailed in a lengthy report on the CIA's surveillance program released Tuesday.

 

[Jarod]

I think that this kind of thing was proven back in the day after Andrew Jackson flat ignored SCOTUS and declared that the Executive has as much right to interpret the constitution as the Judicial.

And you believe Jackson was correct?


I disagree, I believe specific powers were vested in each branch and under those powers they have the right to enforce them upon the other branches.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

We agree.

So, is it your opinion nobody had the authority to prevent the president from doing this before a Court could rule?

If so, does that make the 5th Amendment meaningless in this incidence?

No. In this case, the person was declared a foreign terrorist / spy / agent etc., by Homeland Security, CBP, ICE, etc., and subject to arrest and administrative removal from the US. That is separate from any criminal actions that might be taken against him.

Think of it this way: He is a foreign citizen, not a US citizen. He may have committed criminal, or other, acts that give reason to remove him from the US. If the federal government simply decides to remove (deport) him without first trying him as a criminal, it is an administrative action, not a criminal one. His remedy is after being deported to appeal the decision through the civil side of the federal courts.

His removal--because he is a foreign citizen--causes no particular harm to him as he was a guest of the United States. Foreign citizens have ZERO RIGHTS to be in the United States and can be told or forced to leave for virtually any reason.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

No. In this case, the person was declared a foreign terrorist / spy / agent etc., by Homeland Security, CBP, ICE, etc., and subject to arrest and administrative removal from the US. That is separate from any criminal actions that might be taken against him.

Think of it this way: He is a foreign citizen, not a US citizen. He may have committed criminal, or other, acts that give reason to remove him from the US. If the federal government simply decides to remove (deport) him without first trying him as a criminal, it is an administrative action, not a criminal one. His remedy is after being deported to appeal the decision through the civil side of the federal courts.

His removal--because he is a foreign citizen--causes no particular harm to him as he was a guest of the United States. Foreign citizens have ZERO RIGHTS to be in the United States and can be told or forced to leave for virtually any reason.

Will you remember that when a Democratic president declares you and other MAGAts to be a foreign spy or terrorist then ships you off to a CIA black site never to return?

That's the problem, Terry; how do we know all of them are not US citizens? The fact you support this precedent just goes to prove that you are an anti-Constitutionalist MAGAt.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

So if the executive branch says certain things about people, its done?

In the limited case of foreign nationals being permitted entry into the US, yes, that's how it works. In fact, that's how it works in most countries with foreigners.

 

[Jarod]

In the limited case of foreign nationals being permitted entry into the US, yes, that's how it works. In fact, that's how it works in most countries with foreigners.

They do not follow the US Constitution.

 

[martin]

Then the judge is out of line. Nothing in the original text of the constitution gives the judiciary the powers you claim

In other words there is not a Constitutional provision that gives judges the power to order the Executive branch to turn airplanes around in midflight and return the passengers. You're absolutely right.

That was the Trail of Tears.

https://resources.saylor.org/wwwresources/archived/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/HIST001-4.2.2-President-Jackson-the-Supreme-Court-and-Indian-Removal.pdf

Are you?

Just because something is in writing doesn't necessarily mean it's enforceable. Politicians, kings, and powerful people often brush legality aside and do as they please regardless. I'm not saying that's right or just, I'm saying that's reality.

The Constitution is enforceable because it is law not because it "is in writing", and until now "brushing it aside" has been the opposite of our reality.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Will you remember that when a Democratic president declares you and other MAGAts to be a foreign spy or terrorist then ships you off to a CIA black site never to return?

That's the problem, Terry; how do we know all of them are not US citizens? The fact you support this precedent just goes to prove that you are an anti-Constitutionalist MAGAt.

This is just a trivial objections fallacy. Before asking that, you need to know what process was used to determine they were or were not citizens. You are putting the cart before the horse.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

They do not follow the US Constitution.

Cite the section(s) you claim they aren't following.

 

[Jarod]

Cite the section(s) you claim they aren't following.

5th Amendment, 14th Amendment

 

[Into the Night]

So if the President says you are a terrorist, he can deport you, nobody has any authority to do anything about it?

Who does the President have to claim you are a terrorist to? Who decides if its true?

RQAA, Pretender. Stop mindlessly repeating a question that has already been answered.

 

[Jarod]

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I agree, hence my assertion that they were trying to get things done before the ruling came down. They wanted them outside the jurisdiction of the court beforehand.

That being said, I also think the questions I asked will be the ones they will rule on. I do not think these 250 folks will ever come back to the US regardless.

American citizens or not, Trump and the DOGE Bros will pay El Salvador to make the problem disappear in the jungle. Dead men tell no tales.

 

[Into the Night]

5th Amendment, 14th Amendment

Illegal aliens are not citizens, Pretender.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

RQAA, Pretender. Stop mindlessly repeating a question that has already been answered.

 

[Into the Night]

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

They were already convicted, Pretender.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

5th Amendment, 14th Amendment

5th Amendment applies to criminal actions, this was civil / administrative. Doesn't apply.

14th Amendment applies to citizens of the United States, not foreign nationals. Doesn't apply.

 

[Into the Night]

They do not follow the US Constitution.

DON'T TRY TO HIDE BEHIND THE CONSTITUTION YOU DESPISE, PRETENDER!