Why do Christians proselytize?

BidenPresident said:
If you are happy with your beliefs, why not be happy? If no one asks about your beliefs, why do you insist on lecturing others?
If you have to tell others why they are wrong, it is you who are wrong.

Example. There are beer styles I like that a lot of people do not like. I don't go around telling them they are wrong. I can enjoy something without annoying others with my beliefs.

The second thing which is extremely arrogant, is to say that if you don't convert you are immoral.
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Why? Because they're stupid.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Or to judge others as well -- which is exactly what they are doing when they tell non-believers (even other Xtians of other flavors!) that they are going to hell.
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If they are doing that, then they do not understand the theological foundations their Protestant tradition is based on.

Luther and Calvin both maintained that nobody can know with certainty who has received God's grace. It was decided before we were born, before time immemorial.

The third most important Protestant of the Reformation, the Christian humanist Erasmus said that all you need to do to be a good Christian is to emulate the example of Jesus.

My position is that if someone doesn't even understand the theology and history of their own faith tradition, they are hardly in a position to self-appoint themselves judge and jury of others.
 
evince said:
See



If Christian’s know you are an atheist they assume you are evil
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maybe its the other way around.......we know you are evil, so we assume you're an atheist........


stop-and-think-70529914.png
 
Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
Or to judge others as well -- which is exactly what they are doing when they tell non-believers (even other Xtians of other flavors!) that they are going to hell.
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well I for one am sure as heck glad that nobody in the OP was judgmental........otherwise that would have turned this thread on it's head, wouldn't it.......
 
Celticguy said:
ok thats what I assumed you might find.

That does not condemn protolyzing, it condemns words without actions (it got Jesus in hot water with the Phrases). What better way to spread the Good News than to practice it and have people then ask you about it ?
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Exactly. If only some would actually follow that advice.

Jade said that the Bible commands Christians not to make a spectacle out of their beliefs. You asked where does it say that, and I answered. It's an admonition against doing like that coach -- making a big deal out of praying publicly in the center of the field, or a certain Cheeto-colored atheist holding an upside Bible up to show how "Christian" he is. It's a caution against loudly bleating about the charity work you may do, in order to show how "righteous" you are and telling others to be like you, as at least one fraud here frequently does.

Jesus wanted His followers to share His mission. He also taught humility, compassion, and by example. People who won't take no thanks for an answer haven't figured that out yet.
 
The entire world would become a more logical place if the English words "believe" and "belief" were eliminated from the language.
 
evince said:
I’m glad you are a kind Christian


But dude

Most Christian’s get that LOOK on their face when they realize a person isn’t also a Christian


I never tell them unless I’m asked


But they never look at me the same when they realize I’m not a Christian
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I've had that same experience, particularly at work. I have a lovely pentacle necklace that was a gift from my late husband. I have learned to wear it under my shirt because it seems to excite certain types of Xtians to want to "save" me. :laugh:
 
Cypress said:
If they are doing that, then they do not understand the theological foundations their Protestant tradition is based on.

Luther and Calvin both maintained that nobody can know with certainty who has received God's grace. It was decided before we were born, before time immemorial.

The third most important Protestant of the Reformation, the Christian humanist Erasmus said that all you need to do to be a good Christian is to emulate the example of Jesus.

My position is that if someone doesn't even understand the theology and history of their own faith tradition, they are hardly in a position to self-appoint themselves judge and jury of others.
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I was raised as a Lutheran and cannot recall any doctrine, either of Luther's or later church leaders, that believes in pre-destination. I believe that belongs to the Calvinists.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
I was raised as a Lutheran and cannot recall any doctrine, either of Luther's or later church leaders, that believes in pre-destination. I believe that belongs to the Calvinists.
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Predestination is Calvinist theology, election by justification is Luther. Either way, you cannot be really certain who has received God's grace. One can't just earn grace by performing good deeds. That was where Protestants diverged from Catholics.

In any case, it's hubris to sit in judgement of anyone else on spiritual matters. I really don't see much of that here, but maybe it's more common in the bible belt.
 
Cypress said:
Predestination is Calvinist theology, election by justification is Luther. Either way, you cannot be really certain who has received God's grace. One can't just earn grace by performing good deeds. That was where Protestants diverged from Catholics.

In any case, it's hubris to sit in judgement of anyone else on spiritual matters. I really don't see much of that here, but maybe it's more common in the bible belt.
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Amen to that part.

Anyone is free to suppose whatever he/she wants about the Reality of what does or does not exist.

But that is all it is...conjecture, supposition, blind guesswork.

To claim it to be anything more is an absurdity; to claim it to be closer to the truth (whatever that is) than some other guess...

...is just as absurd.
 
Cypress said:
Predestination is Calvinist theology, election by justification is Luther. Either way, you cannot be really certain who has received God's grace. One can't just earn grace by performing good deeds. That was where Protestants diverged from Catholics.

In any case, it's hubris to sit in judgement of anyone else on spiritual matters. I really don't see much of that here, but maybe it's more common in the bible belt.
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A variation of the Hindu Siva Mahimnah-stotra verse 7 (As quoted by Swami Vivekananda, appears in both vol 1 and 3 - https://advaitaashrama.org/cw/)

""There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading to the same place, so it doesn't matter which path you take. The only person wasting time is the one who runs around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong.""
 
Frank Apisa said:
Amen to that part.

Anyone is free to suppose whatever he/she wants about the Reality of what does or does not exist.

But that is all it is...conjecture, supposition, blind guesswork.

To claim it to be anything more is an absurdity; to claim it to be closer to the truth (whatever that is) than some other guess...

...is just as absurd.
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It's fun to speculate though.

There's nothing more human than to wonder and reason about the ultimate nature of reality.

I like to hear about all reasonable guesses.

What I don't understand is why people get bent out of shape hearing a different perspective about it than their own.

I have never been aggrieved or insulted hearing about a strict form of physical materialism advanced by atheist thinkers like Marx and Freud.

Nor do I get bent out of shape hearing about Christian, Jewish, or Buddhist metaphysics.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
A variation of the Hindu Siva Mahimnah-stotra verse 7 (As quoted by Swami Vivekananda, appears in both vol 1 and 3 - https://advaitaashrama.org/cw/)

""There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading to the same place, so it doesn't matter which path you take. The only person wasting time is the one who runs around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong.""
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Amen to that
 
Cypress said:
Predestination is Calvinist theology, election by justification is Luther. Either way, you cannot be really certain who has received God's grace. One can't just earn grace by performing good deeds. That was where Protestants diverged from Catholics.

In any case, it's hubris to sit in judgement of anyone else on spiritual matters. I really don't see much of that here, but maybe it's more common in the bible belt.
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Yes, it's quite common there. Up here, not at all. We've had JW folks come by twice, and a mysterious letter from another one, but no one so far as consigned me to Hell. Except on this forum, of course. lol
 
BidenPresident said:
If you are happy with your beliefs, why not be happy? If no one asks about your beliefs, why do you insist on lecturing others?
If you have to tell others why they are wrong, it is you who are wrong.

Example. There are beer styles I like that a lot of people do not like. I don't go around telling them they are wrong. I can enjoy something without annoying others with my beliefs.

The second thing which is extremely arrogant, is to say that if you don't convert you are immoral.
Click to expand...

Mark 16:15-16
15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned..."

They are commanded to tell you about it. It really is as simple as that.

I find it very easy to just let them and move on. Life is too short to try to convince a Christian that they shouldn't tell you about the gospel.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Yes, it's quite common there. Up here, not at all. We've had JW folks come by twice, and a mysterious letter from another one, but no one so far as consigned me to Hell. Except on this forum, of course. lol
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I did see a lot of holy rollers when I lived in Texas, but I was never aggressively approached and prostelitized by any of them.

Maybe it would have been a different story if I wore my Black Sabbath t-shirt more often :)
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Exactly. If only some would actually follow that advice.

Jade said that the Bible commands Christians not to make a spectacle out of their beliefs. You asked where does it say that, and I answered. It's an admonition against doing like that coach -- making a big deal out of praying publicly in the center of the field, or a certain Cheeto-colored atheist holding an upside Bible up to show how "Christian" he is. It's a caution against loudly bleating about the charity work you may do, in order to show how "righteous" you are and telling others to be like you, as at least one fraud here frequently does.

Jesus wanted His followers to share His mission. He also taught humility, compassion, and by example. People who won't take no thanks for an answer haven't figured that out yet.
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there is also Matthew 5:15 which means for us to share the good news. Your issue seems to be one of perception. That coach has a huddle on the field because there isnt really anyplace else to do it. And, lets face it, you dont like Trump.

Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house.
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Damocles said:
Mark 16:15-16
15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned..."

They are commanded to tell you about it. It really is as simple as that.

I find it very easy to just let them and move on. Life is too short to try to convince a Christian that they shouldn't tell you about the gospel.
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Agreed. Conversely, badgering people and condemning them for not believing is a violation of multiple Biblical verses....harming them for being non-believers is antithetical to Christianity.

Examples:

John 4:20-21
20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.
21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.

Matthew 7:1-2
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
 
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