Why does socialism usually fail?

Especially the downplaying arguments. Cypress is suddenly shocked that anyone would think that our politicians are socialist leaning. LOLOLOLOL

Someone left the gate unlocked, the idiots are everywhere.

Those of us who can talk about socialist perspectives factor in American ignorance on the subject.

It's like talking about technology among people who are computer illiterate and can't figure out which button turns it on.
 
The reason those of us on the right clamor about the dangers of Socialism, is because the past 50 years of Democrat policy is pure Socialism. From FDR's New Deal, to LBJ's Great Society, it is straight out of the Socialist Handbook. We have all been cajoled into accepting these things, by calling the socialist policy something comfortable, but it is Socialist. And the Democrat party continues to push toward Socialism, with Universal Health Care and refusal to even discuss the privitization of Social Security. In fact, if you want to see how human nature effects Socialism, look at the mess Social Security is in! In a microcosim, it illustrates exactly why Socialism fails every time. Billions of dollars start piling up, and humans are going to behave humanly, and find ways to justify spending it. Even though it doesn't belong to them, and it is being reserved for a different purpose, just the fact that it is there and we are humans.

The Private Sector takes the place of the state in Capitalism. Supply and demand, free market economy, and rewarding success is what drives Capitalism, and it will prevail over Socialism every time, because it relies on the Human Behavior Factor, it depends on people being motivated by success and striving for it, and by God it works.

Socialism doesn't work in a large diverse population, it never has and never will. Yet we continue to get bombarded with Liberal Socialist policy day after day, week after week, and year after year. Doesn't matter that the Soviet Union falls, doesn't matter that Capitalism flourishes everywhere they try it, you pinheads want to insist we adopt Socialist policy that is proven to fail, and keep trashing Capitalist Pigs at the Big Greedy Capitalist Corporations!
 
Stop public paid education and roadmaintenance, Medicare, etc. socialism sucks

You wanna pay toll for every mile of road travelled on, pay 100% for your childs education. Capitalism rules :cheer:

And no tax breaks for children either.
 
Some socialists try to point out that socialist (or communist, its kissing cousin) policies are "sound". Sure, if you can get people to follow them. They include the policy that govenment owns all industry, business, etc., and gives its workers the housing, food, education etc. they need. The ides is, that they will work for the greater good of society, and keep the businesses flourishing. There are other features of socialism, but these are some of the most important.

But people in a socialist system generally don't want to obey socialist policy. It's a tendency that increases with time. Rather than work harder at something that brings them no additional benefit for it, some slack off while most keep working hard. Later the hard workers notice the slackers, and a few more slack off. Later a few more, etc. The system doesn't collapse suddenly, but merely gets more and more inefficient and unproductive over the years, or even over generations. Then when other problems happen (natural disaster, foreign invasion, etc.) recovery is difficult or impossible when the country has slid far enough into sloth. This is the cause of the repeated failures of socialist economies.

And the only thing the leaders can seem to do about it, is force people to work hard whether they like it or not, whether their pay goes up commensurately or not. In other word, they must rule contrary to the will of the people, rather than in accordance with it. In other words, they must become dictators.

Socialism breeds dictators. But it's not the dictators that bring down the society. Socialist policy, and the disinterest in the population in following it, bring down the society.

Capitalism, with its tendency to (usually) reward hard work and initiative, has it flaws, but that isn't one of them. And so it survives and prospers, however roughly and unevenly, where socialism fails.

Many of the oldest nations in the world, France, Germany, Spain, Some say England, are more socalist than Capitalist... They seem to be doing very well. Most have a higher standard of living than we do!
 
The reason those of us on the right clamor about the dangers of Socialism, is because the past 50 years of Democrat policy is pure Socialism. From FDR's New Deal, to LBJ's Great Society, it is straight out of the Socialist Handbook. We have all been cajoled into accepting these things, by calling the socialist policy something comfortable, but it is Socialist. And the Democrat party continues to push toward Socialism, with Universal Health Care and refusal to even discuss the privitization of Social Security. In fact, if you want to see how human nature effects Socialism, look at the mess Social Security is in! In a microcosim, it illustrates exactly why Socialism fails every time. Billions of dollars start piling up, and humans are going to behave humanly, and find ways to justify spending it. Even though it doesn't belong to them, and it is being reserved for a different purpose, just the fact that it is there and we are humans.

The Private Sector takes the place of the state in Capitalism. Supply and demand, free market economy, and rewarding success is what drives Capitalism, and it will prevail over Socialism every time, because it relies on the Human Behavior Factor, it depends on people being motivated by success and striving for it, and by God it works.

Socialism doesn't work in a large diverse population, it never has and never will. Yet we continue to get bombarded with Liberal Socialist policy day after day, week after week, and year after year. Doesn't matter that the Soviet Union falls, doesn't matter that Capitalism flourishes everywhere they try it, you pinheads want to insist we adopt Socialist policy that is proven to fail, and keep trashing Capitalist Pigs at the Big Greedy Capitalist Corporations!


Gotcha. That's what I thought this was about. The New Deal was socialism.
 
Those of us who can talk about socialist perspectives factor in American ignorance on the subject.

It's like talking about technology among people who are computer illiterate and can't figure out which button turns it on.
This would be a more apt analogy if in each case the computer was successfully turned on, it burned the house down.
 
Many of the oldest nations in the world, France, Germany, Spain, Some say England, are more socalist than Capitalist... They seem to be doing very well. Most have a higher standard of living than we do!
That is simply untrue. They have socialized certain risks, Health Insurance for instance, but there remains the ability to own and keep businesses that remained impossible in socialist nations. They are not "more socialist than capitalist"...
 
Umm without the NEW deal we would not have done nearly as well in WW2.

I personally think that on balance, the New Deal made this country great.

But, I'd be perfectly happy for conservatives to come out clean, and say that they want to eliminate everything that came about under the New Deal.
 
That is simply untrue. They have socialized certain risks, Health Insurance for instance, but there remains the ability to own and keep businesses that remained impossible in socialist nations. They are not "more socialist than capitalist"...

True, I should have said that they are more socalist than we are!
 
Some socialists try to point out that socialist (or communist, its kissing cousin) policies are "sound". Sure, if you can get people to follow them. They include the policy that govenment owns all industry, business, etc., and gives its workers the housing, food, education etc. they need. The ides is, that they will work for the greater good of society, and keep the businesses flourishing. There are other features of socialism, but these are some of the most important.

But people in a socialist system generally don't want to obey socialist policy. It's a tendency that increases with time. Rather than work harder at something that brings them no additional benefit for it, some slack off while most keep working hard. Later the hard workers notice the slackers, and a few more slack off. Later a few more, etc. The system doesn't collapse suddenly, but merely gets more and more inefficient and unproductive over the years, or even over generations. Then when other problems happen (natural disaster, foreign invasion, etc.) recovery is difficult or impossible when the country has slid far enough into sloth. This is the cause of the repeated failures of socialist economies.

And the only thing the leaders can seem to do about it, is force people to work hard whether they like it or not, whether their pay goes up commensurately or not. In other word, they must rule contrary to the will of the people, rather than in accordance with it. In other words, they must become dictators.

Socialism breeds dictators. But it's not the dictators that bring down the society. Socialist policy, and the disinterest in the population in following it, bring down the society.

Capitalism, with its tendency to (usually) reward hard work and initiative, has it flaws, but that isn't one of them. And so it survives and prospers, however roughly and unevenly, where socialism fails.

Call me when capitalism breaks, which it appears to be doing right now.

Attempts at socialism have failed to this point for many reasons. Those reasons have little do with the theory of socialism and more to do with the individuals/organisations who professed to be practising it. But, as Marx pointed out, socialism must come from capitalism's eventual failure to become permanent. And as Trotsky pointed out, socialism will only be successful on a world basis, hence this theory of continuous revolution. I'm not keen on revoution, I'm basically Fabian in my outlook.

The great failure model is the Soviet Union of course. Yes, the country that got rid of despotic imperialism in 1917 and put the first man in space 44 years later. The country that fought a war against the world's most powerful military force and defeated it, twenty-something years after it was formed.
The reason Soviet communism failed was down to Stalin and his despotism, a Tsar by another name.

And what was the policy that rebuilt a shattered UK after WWII? Socialism. The Attlee Labour government, with no help. from anyone else (all too busy rebuilding Germany to keep the Soviets out) recovered from the privations of WWII and it was the Labour government's socialist policies that did it.

I don't suppose the idea of market socialism registers on the radar of some folks, they're condemned to keep mouthing bullshit about what they think is socialism. Here's a clue. The nature of socialism as an economic (and thus social) theory has changed since the time of Marx and Engels. Stalinism has been dumped in everywhere but North Korea.

Happily socialist theorists have been keeping up. When capitalism enters its death throes there will be a replacement, just as all the other historical economic systems, lauded at the time as bineg completely natural and in tune with human urges, were replaced when they failed.

Evolution, not revolution.
 
There is no such thing as "pure socialism". Socialism is only a step on the path to the Utopian idea of Communism.

I dont agree with that. Socialism can exist without being the path to Communism... It can be the destination itself.
 
I dont agree with that. Socialism can exist without being the path to Communism... It can be the destination itself.

It's on the way. Socialism is a means to pure communism, at least in terms of the understanding of historical materialism.
 
I dont agree with that. Socialism can exist without being the path to Communism... It can be the destination itself.
Like I said, these nations work to strike a balance. What you disagree with is the person who actually created the term.

While there are portions of a partially socialized government where they have socialized risk, the reality is they are not "socialist" governments. Saying, this is the destination is understandable, but it is not a socialist government that becomes the destination, it is that balance they strike that you like, or that I dislike.
 
this shit is funny
the big difference in socialism and why it fails is the government control of industry and property. The idiots claiming schools etc are socialist are retarted. A democracy can't have government systems decided by the majority. LOFL
 
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