ZOGBY: McCain Takes 5-Point Lead Over Obama

Darla said:
LOL

The fact is that I do believe race is going to be the deciding factor. I believe the negative attacks are working because his name is Barack Obama, and he's black. I do believe he's losing some support on the left, but I think most of it due to just this. I have no way of proving it, but I know too many white people, normally democrats, who won't vote for him. Why? It's not becasue they love McCain.
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.....:corn: Darla narrowly escaping pwnership.......
 
Darla said:
Well, I've already posted about 50 times that I think it's due to the more easily demonized image of a black man with a Muslim sounding name, as opposed to a white guy named Dave.

But, let's be clear, is it your claim, and bac's claim, that there is ONE reason for the change in polling and that reason is soley that he is losing the left?

I don't know smart people who think that many things have only one explanation, that's widely viewed as very simplistic thinking, so I'm very interested in nailing you two down on this.
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More clearly .. he's losing people who supported his ideas .. that he has now abandoned.

There are more than just the left in that group.
 
Darla said:
I get emails from people who I thought were sane, telling me that Obama refuses to salute the flag, whatever in hell that means. I never got stuff like that about Kerry. I told you guys what was in my work mailbox yesterday. Now that person got reamed, but the fact is...that's what is going around. And in the picture in my mailbox, Obama was in Muslim garb.
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May I ask did that guy say what he was thinking to send that type of e-mail around your office? Did he really have no clue as to the political leanings of the people he worked with or is he just that dumb?
 
Darla said:
LOl. No, he got me bad there, I can't deny it. I did worm my way out of it pretty good, but a win's a win.
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Wow. You shouldn't have conceded defeat. I thought your worm job was pretty good.

I have a feeling you may be nominated in the youngins pwn court this week.
 
blackascoal said:
More clearly .. he's losing people who supported his ideas .. that he has now abandoned.

There are more than just the left in that group.
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I don’t deny that, though I guess I suspect they are going to vote for him when it comes down to it. Obviously, accepting you! Lol.

Maybe I am cynical and bitter, but I can’t believe the shit I am hearing about saluting flags and being muslim and worse, and again, from people I used to think were sane. So, my feeling is this is playing a much larger part than people want to talk about.
 
Darla said:
"But the relentlessly negative campaign McCain is running has certainly had a big effect, but I want to point out again, a black guy with a Muslim sounding name is easily demonized by that sort of campaign, and it’s why they are hitting him hard with the “he’s anti-american” accusation, with McCain himself pounding that out every day on his stump speeches."
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He's losing support from many black people .. are they abandoning him because of his race .. or that he has a muslim sounding name?

Why is it so difficult for you to consider that perhaps he's running a seriously flawed general election campaign?

Why are issues suddenly unimportant?

Hillary didn't lose because of sexism .. she ran a seriously flawed primary campaign.
 
Epicurus said:
That is the argument that her hypothesis is unable to overcome.

Obama at one point had over 50% favorability rating. I find it HIGHLY unlikely that some of those supporters saw a picture and said "ZOMG he's black?" and changed their vote.

So that means something else is happening. The media barrage explains a lot of his decrease in favorability ratings.

I argue that it is simply because he was an unknown commodity.
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I believe part of Obama's slide in the polls is due to the way he prevaricates on hard issues. Of prime example, when he was asked about when human rights should start, he came out with the lame "That's above my pay grade." Sorry, but what a fucking wimpy answer is that? He DIDN'T answer in a definable way because he is too busy pandering to the middle, while figuring - correctly - that the hard left will vote for him anyway, just to keep McCain from winning.

But I don;t think that method is working well for him. He has a record people can see (and if not - be openly reminded of by the McCain campaign) on these issues. So when he prevaricates like that, it makes him look wishy washy - which does not play well to the very middle folks he is trying to pander to.


OTOH, McCain talks tough. It may (and does - especially the hard left) piss some people off when he does so, but it is also appealing in a leader when they come across as decisive. As an instance, when asked the same question as Obama, he said it out flat "At conception." That is obviously a stance that will piss off a WHOLE lot of people who disagree. BUT at the same time, it is decisive and tough, which in the end appeals to people - even some of those who disagree with it, but have abortion as a low priority issue.

According to a poll done by Rassmussen in 2004, the majority of independent moderates - who again will be the sector that determines this election - mostly look for leadership in a presidential candidate. When a candidate makes decisive statements like McCain keeps coming out with, they see a leader. When a candidate comes out with the types of statements Obama makes on issues like abortion and gun control, they see an indecisive wimp. The end result is many will support a leader they disagree with on some issues over someone they see as indecisive (thereby not really KNOWING if they disagree or not.)
 
blackascoal said:
He's losing support from many black people .. are they abandoning him because of his race .. or that he has a muslim sounding name?

Why is it so difficult for you to consider that perhaps he's running a seriously flawed general election campaign?

Why are issues suddenly unimportant?

Hillary didn't lose because of sexism .. she ran a seriously flawed primary campaign.
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Oh, I think it's seriously flawed, but as I said earlier, the main focus of mine is that he just is lying down for McCain. He's pulling a Kerry. Moving to the right for the general, eh, who didn't know that was coming? The Fisa thing was the one issue that really made me mad, the rest I just shrugged. Saw them coming.
 
cawacko said:
May I ask did that guy say what he was thinking to send that type of e-mail around your office? Did he really have no clue as to the political leanings of the people he worked with or is he just that dumb?
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He didn't send it around Cawacko, he specifically placed it in my box only. Maybe he didn't think I would find out who did it, but that took me about 40 seconds.
 
Darla said:
I don’t deny that, though I guess I suspect they are going to vote for him when it comes down to it. Obviously, accepting you! Lol.

Maybe I am cynical and bitter, but I can’t believe the shit I am hearing about saluting flags and being muslim and worse, and again, from people I used to think were sane. So, my feeling is this is playing a much larger part than people want to talk about.
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I agree with you, and I've been hearing that bullshit all my life .. however, Obama weathered far worse in the primary and Hillary Clinton is far more formidible opponent than a weak-ass John McCain.

Believing that people are just going to vote for him anyway, no matter what he does just makes no sense whatsoever to me.

This man had a movement, he set records with millions of white voters .. who also sent LARGE amounts of money and he beat the most powerful political family in the last 50 years in America with those ideas and people ... and he abandoned it.

... but now white people are the problem?
 
blackascoal said:
He's losing support from many black people .. are they abandoning him because of his race .. or that he has a muslim sounding name?

Why is it so difficult for you to consider that perhaps he's running a seriously flawed general election campaign?

Why are issues suddenly unimportant?

Hillary didn't lose because of sexism .. she ran a seriously flawed primary campaign.
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Obama's pull was stronger, that doesn't mean Hillary ran a flawed campaign. Who else other than Hillary could have stayed that efficient and competitive for so long and have it as close as it was? No one.
 
It's not no matter what he does. He sold out the anti-war crowd, does that make him more warhawk than " I hope we are there for 100yrs Mcain".
I think not.
 
Grind said:
Obama's pull was stronger, that doesn't mean Hillary ran a flawed campaign. Who else other than Hillary could have stayed that efficient and competitive for so long and have it as close as it was? No one.
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Hillary ran a stupid campaign .. she had the nomination and she blew it.
 
blackascoal said:
I agree with you, and I've been hearing that bullshit all my life .. however, Obama weathered far worse in the primary and Hillary Clinton is far more formidible opponent than a weak-ass John McCain.

Believeing that people are just going to vote for him anyway, no matter what he does just makes no sense whatsoever to me.

This man had a movement, he set records with millions of white voters .. who also sent LARGE amounts of money and he beat thje most powerful political family in the last 50 years in America with those ideas and people ... and he abandoned it.

... but now white people are the problem?
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I feel that you are not differentiating between white people who vote in Democratic primaries -the liberal base - and the general white electorate, which includes many not-so-liberal white dems, plus independents, and even moderate republicans who might have gone dem due to the disaster of the current resident.
 
blackascoal said:
He's losing support from many black people .. are they abandoning him because of his race .. or that he has a muslim sounding name?

Why is it so difficult for you to consider that perhaps he's running a seriously flawed general election campaign?

Why are issues suddenly unimportant?

Hillary didn't lose because of sexism .. she ran a seriously flawed primary campaign.
Click to expand...

lol - yeah, the last report I read he only had a 92% approval rating amongst blacks. Down from 94%.
 
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