A historic disaster is coming for the US from the tax bill

cawacko said:
Not lying at all. It's what you have been doing the entire thread, anything that reduces deficit, credit D's. Anything that gains, credit R's
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The facts have a liberal bias, to quote Colbert. Try refuting the facts, not complaining that they don't fit your preference. Or hey - try correcting your opinion to fit the facts.

You're arguing a straw man lie.

Because you can't answer the issue, you are attacking with an ad hominem that I'm being biased for Democrats.

There's a difference between saying Democrats are better for good reason, and for bad reason. You are making an accusation you can't back up.

I've no more patience for it. Get back to honesty and rational discussion or there's no point in wasting more time. Democrats aren't perfect, they're better. Get more honest and we can discuss where Democrats don't reduce the deficit.

But here's a hint:

A loan to expand your business is not the same as a loan for money to spend at a strip club.

Deficits for some things are justified; for others, like making the rich richer simply for the sake of their wanting it, are not.
 
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Craig234 said:
The facts have a liberal bias, to quote Colbert. Try refuting the facts, not complaining that they don't fit your preference. Or hey - try correcting your opinion to fit the facts.

You're arguing a straw man lie.

Because you can't answer the issue, you are attacking with an ad hominem that I'm being biased for Democrats.

There's a difference between saying Democrats are better for good reason, and for bad reason. You are making an accusation you can't back up.

I've no more patience for it. Get back to honesty and rational discussion or there's no point in wasting more time. Democrats aren't perfect, they're better. Get more honest and we can discuss where Democrats don't reduce the deficit.

But here's a hint:

A loan to expand your business is not the same as a loan for money to spend at a strip club.

Deficits for some things are justified; for others, like making the rich richer simply for the sake of their wanting it, are not.
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Like I said, because you have no desire to credit Republicans with anything you accuse me (others) of lying when we do. There's nothing factual about that. That's your own personal bias.

I'll call out the republican party because because they deserve it. They aren't above reproach.
 
Craig234 said:
This a very big, important topic you should try to learn about, but it'll take some time.

I wish I knew one good book I could point you to to answer it. Instead I'll just give you one example.

CEOs used to make about 25 times as much as their average workers. Pretty nice. But in recent decades, that has increased to about 300 times as much.

It's not because they have added more than ten times as much value compared to workers.

In fact, I'd like you to look at this chart, which shows that workers have constantly increased their productivity - but not been compensated for it. Where has all that increased productivity gone? To the rich.

https://gerrycanavan.files.wordpres...income_median_income_growth_productivity1.png

And note how it changed from before 1980 - with higher taxes on the rich - and after 1980. This is the key issue for modern America that fuels everything else including the rise of the libertarian right Republicans.

But it's not all about taxes. The anecdote I mentioned:

One change to CEO compensation has been their simply learning to 'game the system' better and better. They have appointed each other to their boards, to 'oversee' them - in fact, creating a club that protects itself. As they gave each other more and more money for no good reason, they responded to the backlash by starting to use 'compensation advisers' supposedly provide impartial advice on the compensation levels for the executives.

But who selects the compensation advisers? You guessed it. And they know the answers expected for them to be selected. It's created a pretty story of fairness while actually corrupting the system. And they understand how the shareholders as a practical matter pretty much never organize and challenge the abuse - and this is one of many ways in which the inequality has increased.

One more point for you to consider.

Look at Wall Street's history for decades after FDR. Wall Street has a legitimate role in the economy, in 'greasing the wheels', and it has historically been compensated for that by about 10% of the nation's profits going to them.

But since Reagan, and deregulation, Wall Street has added all kinds of activities that are parasitical - and some even harm the economy, but let them extract more ant more wealth.

There are books on this (I like Nomi Prins, for one writer), but let's pick one example, high-speed trading. This is where computers are located as near as possible to the market physically so as to execute trades in microseconds, which algorithms, determined by armies of Ph.D mathematicians and physicists taken from productive jobs design. These trade - a majority of all the trades done - add no value to anyone else, they simply extract wealth from society.

These increased parasite activities have increased their share of the economy's profits from the historic 10% for greasing the wheels, to up to 40% of the economy, not for doing anyone any good. Just parasites.

And of course, they've used that wealth for political power so that THEIR incomes which are some of the least deserved, get taxed at LOWER rates than the hard-working middle class and normal earned income.
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Bears reading again.

Which is why I...and subsequently Sanders, wanted to impose a pittance of a charge on every transaction. It would raise billions every year.
 
Fauxcahontas said:
Let me try to explain this to Craigy Waigy

I despise Bill Gates. He is the epitome of the liberal “I got mine fuck you” liberal attitude.

For years I have refused to buy any Microsoft products. None. Nothing. No software. No Windows computer.

Bill Gates gets no money from me for anything.

Now the only way he can get access is through bribing corrupt politicians by being a rent seeker and securing taxpayer dollars. Short of that he gets nothing from me

That is how the free market works. Get it? Good. The education is free. What you do with it is up to you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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Facts and Truth have no acquaintance with you do they
 
Craig234 said:
It's really looking like: you know how a duck hunter can use the thing that sounds like a duck to attract the duck, and then shoots it?

Republicans have these people functioning on the level of "hate Democrats, vote Republican", and then basically shooting them, and when the people say it's a problem, they say blame the Democrats, vote Republican, and they do.
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Wait until they start attacking the 'entitlements' next year, in order to balance the huge deficits that this bill will create. That usually makes the base drool
 
cawacko said:
Like I said, because you have no desire to credit Republicans with anything you accuse me (others) of lying when we do. There's nothing factual about that. That's your own personal bias.

I'll call out the republican party because because they deserve it. They aren't above reproach.
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You're continuing to tell the same lies. I'll credit Republicans with everything they deserve, which is very little. You post attacks without any support for them and that's lying. If you can disprove anything I said - specific, factual - do it. You haven't.

Good for you if you can call out the Republican part at least sometimes.
 
Althea said:
Wait until they start attacking the 'entitlements' next year, in order to balance the huge deficits that this bill will create. That usually makes the base drool
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That's exactly their modus operandi. Starve the beast, create plutocracy.
 
Althea said:
Wait until they start attacking the 'entitlements' next year, in order to balance the huge deficits that this bill will create. That usually makes the base drool
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They are the largest cost to the federal government. Anyone who says the national debt is a problem but entitlements shouldn't be touched isn't serious about debt
 
Althea said:
Bears reading again.

Which is why I...and subsequently Sanders, wanted to impose a pittance of a charge on every transaction. It would raise billions every year.
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That tax is a good idea if they simply burned the money, in order to lessen the harmful activity.

But they weren't going to burn the money. The tax would raise $300 billion; $50 billion of it would pay for the 'free public tuition' investment that would ACTUALLY create opportunity and growth, unlike giving billionaires more borrowed money.
 
Craig234 said:
You're continuing to tell the same lies. I'll credit Republicans with everything they deserve, which is very little. You post attacks without any support for them and that's lying. If you can disprove anything I said - specific, factual - do it. You haven't.

Good for you if you can call out the Republican part at least sometimes.
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To each his own man but I'll repeat, because you disagree with something doesn't make it a lie.
 
Craig234 said:
That's exactly their modus operandi. Starve the beast, create plutocracy.
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Yes. Under the demand for sequester under Obama, they cut food stamps and other social programs first, and then military spending...which is what they are now crying about.

Now they want to make further cuts, never mentioning that the Medicaid cuts affect the elderly the most. They just let CHIP expire for the first time since Clinton...because billionaires need the money more than healthcare for children
 
cawacko said:
To each his own man but I'll repeat, because you disagree with something doesn't make it a lie.
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I'll repeat, that's right. Being a lie makes it a lie. You do love your straw men - trump said he wouldn't golf as president, he lied. Does my disagreeing with his golfing make that a lie? No.
 
Craig234 said:
I'll repeat, that's right. Being a lie makes it a lie. You do love your straw men - trump said he wouldn't golf as president, he lied. Does my disagreeing with his golfing make that a lie? No.
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The example you gave would be a lie. Because you think Republicans are at fault for all doesn't make it true and me saying they along with Clinton were responsible for the modicum of fiscal responsibility our government showed in the late '90's isn't a lie because you disagree. There's no straw man about that.
 
cawacko said:
The example you gave would be a lie. Because you think Republicans are at fault for all doesn't make it true and me saying they along with Clinton were responsible for the modicum of fiscal responsibility our government showed in the late '90's isn't a lie because you disagree. There's no straw man about that.
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Now you're lying that I lied. Quit while you're behind because you're gotten offensive and if you continue it's ignore.

Yes, I understand you are so blind that when every Republican says the Clnton budget will doom the economy, and the budget does the opposite, it proves the Republicans were right because magic internet boom answers everything. Until Bush.
 
Craig234 said:
Wow, this idiot is 'staff'? On ignore regardless. Hopefully an exception for the site. Edit: can't put moderators on ignore, but I can not read this one. The site should take action to improve the quality of its staff.
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I'm sorry, I was a bit rude earlier. Please get aids up your butthole and die, stupid bitch. :)
 
Craig234 said:
Wow, this idiot is 'staff'? On ignore regardless. Hopefully an exception for the site. Edit: can't put moderators on ignore, but I can not read this one. The site should take action to improve the quality of its staff.
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you should petition Grind to fire him.....
 
Craig234 said:
How do I request this guy be made not a moderator? He is a real reason to not participate on this site as a moderator.
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Ok I was just kidding last time. I'm sorry for real this time. If you could just dig up your dead parents, I would really appreciate having a go and blowing a load in one of their empty eye sockets. If there are maggots present they can really add to the sensation. And it is divine!
 
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