So now what with Ukraine?

[Walt]

What's more, Russia would also be -giving back- some territory, as it has some territory that is not part of the 4 regions that is already mainly controls. It frustrates me to no end that this war would never have even started if the U.S. hadn't been so arrogant to begin with, but there may still be a chance that Ukraine would get to keep a port on the black sea, Odessa.

You want Russia to be given territory they could not take in war? They are unable to get their troops across the Dnieper River, so your solution is to have Ukraine allow them across for a vague promise of peace?

If Ukraine gives them a free crossing of the Dnieper River for a 30 day truce, the Russians will attack immediately after the gain their new positions. There is no value in giving them territory.

As for gaining Odesa, Russia had a good shot at it at the beginning of the war, but Odesa fought hard, and Ukraine regained everything on the right side of the Dnieper.

 

[Walt]

From everything I've read, there is no way that Russia will "back off", just like there was no way that the U.S. would have 'backed off' during the Cuban missile crisis if Russia had kept its nukes there.

Worth noting that we did back off. We did not replace the government of Cuba with one to our liking. Cuba is allowed to be a member of whatever alliance they want. If we apply that to Ukraine, then Ukraine's government should not be replaced by Russia, and they should be free to join whatever alliance they want.

 

[Walt]

Russia understands the value of doing things right instead of doing things fast.

That just is not the way war works. It is better to do things fast than to wait for years to do things perfect. Waiting around years gives the enemy time to defeat you.

 

[Walt]

You really beleive India and China are going to become friends? Hilarious.

When you are right, you are right.

 

[Hawkeye10]

That just is not the way war works. It is better to do things fast than to wait for years to do things perfect. Waiting around years gives the enemy time to defeat you.

Not in this case, where the West demanded war with Russia even as the West collapses....a once or twice a millennia event.

The calendar is on Russias side....and the Russians want to spend as few lives on this as possible....almost nobody in Russia now has a problem with Putins slow and careful approach.

 

[Walt]

Yeah, Trump said that he would give Ukraine advanced military weaponry, so what did joe biden do when Russia attacked Ukraine,
he didn't give Ukraine the advanced military weaponry that Trump would have given them, thus, the continuous attack by Russia
to a never ending war.

Biden gave the Ukrainians huge amounts of advanced weapons. trump is cutting them off from those advanced weapons.

The war will end someday. The point of Ukraine is to survive until that day.

 

[Scott]

Unless Russia's last deal has truly expired, they only wanted a bit more territory beyond what they already control. What's more, Russia would also be -giving back- some territory, as it has some territory that is not part of the 4 regions that is already mainly controls. It frustrates me to no end that this war would never have even started if the U.S. hadn't been so arrogant to begin with, but there may still be a chance that Ukraine would get to keep a port on the black sea, Odessa.

You want Russia to be given territory they could not take in war?

I believe you severely underestimate Russia. I believe Russia can take all of Ukraine if it wanted to. Trump himself has alluded to this. Holding it is another matter entirely, as the U.S. should know from its ventures in countries like Afghanistan and Iraq. Which is why Russia is trying to be reasonable and asking for a little more than it already has in some regions, while it would apparently give back territory it has in others. Unfortunately, Ukraine and its western allies are not very reasonable, which is why this war is still ongoing.

They are unable to get their troops across the Dnieper River, so your solution is to have Ukraine allow them across for a vague promise of peace?

I'm assuming you're referring to Kherson city? My understanding is that generally speaking, Russia has no current interest in much land across the Dnieper. But as the Russians themselves have said, this time they only asked for 4 oblasts, most of which they already control. Next time, it will be 8. This may be a bit of an exageration, but then again, perhaps not.

If Ukraine gives them a free crossing of the Dnieper River for a 30 day truce, the Russians will attack immediately after the gain their new positions.\

I highly doubt anyone expects Ukraine to give up land in exchange for a 30 day truce. No, if Ukraine were to give up land, it would be for a permanent peace treaty.

As for gaining Odesa, Russia had a good shot at it at the beginning of the war, but Odesa fought hard, and Ukraine regained everything on the right side of the Dnieper.

The longer this war goes on, the more likely it is that Russia will take Odessa. I am -hoping- that Ukraine comes to its senses and makes a peace deal before that happens.

 

[Scott]

From everything I've read, there is no way that Russia will "back off", just like there was no way that the U.S. would have 'backed off' during the Cuban missile crisis if Russia had kept its nukes there.

Worth noting that we did back off. We did not replace the government of Cuba with one to our liking.

So far, yes. On the other hand...

United States embargo against Cuba - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Cuba is allowed to be a member of whatever alliance they want.

I have a feeling that only applies so long as Cuba doesn't get nukes again. Or do you think the U.S. would be amenable to such a scenario in this 'modern' age?

 

[Hawkeye10]

I believe you severely underestimate Russia. I believe Russia can take all of Ukraine if it wanted to. Trump himself has alluded to this. Holding it is another matter entirely, as the U.S. should know from its ventures in countries like Afghanistan and Iraq. Which is why Russia is trying to be reasonable and asking for a little more than it already has in some regions, while it would apparently give back territory it has in others. Unfortunately, Ukraine and its western allies are not very reasonable, which is why this war is still ongoing.



I'm assuming you're referring to Kherson city? My understanding is that generally speaking, Russia has no current interest in much land across the Dnieper. But as the Russians themselves have said, this time they only asked for 4 oblasts, most of which they already control. Next time, it will be 8. This may be a bit of an exageration, but then again, perhaps not.



I highly doubt anyone expects Ukraine to give up land in exchange for a 30 day truce. No, if Ukraine were to give up land, it would be for a permanent peace treaty.



The longer this war goes on, the more likely it is that Russia will take Odessa. I am -hoping- that Ukraine comes to its senses and makes a peace deal before that happens.

Ukraine is not a sovereign country, they dont decide much of anything, they do as they are told....are paid to do.

 

[Scott]

Russia understands the value of doing things right instead of doing things fast.

That just is not the way war works. It is better to do things fast than to wait for years to do things perfect. Waiting around years gives the enemy time to defeat you.

I'd say it depends on the war. In the case of Ukraine, I think Russia's approach makes the most sense. They don't want to create chaos as the U.S. did in places like Libya. I think we can agree that NATO did a "super fast" job there, with terrible results. Russia wants to integrate part of Ukraine into Russia itself. They've already done this and they plan to do more of it.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Another thing too that the Russians understand......even as the American Empire collapses the Collective West still intends to keep coming at Russia.....even after losing in Ukraine the plan is to go after Russia next from Romania and the Baltic Sea....the Russians know that they have to pace themselves, and not make any mistakes.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Ukraine is not a nation and is not a Vassal of America.......it is an arm of the Wall Street Mafia/CIA/MI6/MOSSAD....the global bankers......and Z is an actor playing a role off of scripts handed to him.

 

[Lionfish]

So what is the plan?

Trumppers, what do you think The Felon should do? Or do you have to wait for him to announce something, so you know what to believe?

Why don't you stop asking stupid questions and just call Trump.

 

[Hawkeye10]

The global bankers know that they are in trouble, they need the resumption of the plundering of the massive wealth of Russia to save the day...they will not stop.

 

[Scott]

Another thing too that the Russians understand......even as the American Empire collapses the Collective West still intends to keep coming at Russia.....even after losing in Ukraine the plan is to go after Russia next from Romania and the Baltic Sea....the Russians know that they have to pace themselves, and not make any mistakes.

I think they've made mistakes and know it, but I think they've been relatively minor ones. Ukraine and the west, on the other hand...

 

[Walt]

Give Ukraine the weapons needed to take out the Crimea bridge.

From my understanding, they already have what they need to take out the Crimean Bridge. If they can take out the Crimean Bridge at the same time they crush the land bridge, Crimea suddenly becomes undefendable. If you take out the bridge before you take out the land bridge, that givers the Russians time to react.

The problem is the land bridge was not collapsed. The Ukrainians had no trouble crossing the Dnieper River, which was thought to be hard. They ran into a lot of trouble with the minefields that followed, which was not thought to be hard. It turns out that wide minefields, combined with drones and artillery, are very difficult to cross with current technology.

That being said, technology is flying forward, so that might change over the next months, or years. Land based robots may be able to defeat landmines very soon. Ukraine is certainly working on it.

If the Ukrainians ever collapse the land bridge, they will immediately collapse the Crimean Bridge, and with any luck, regain Crimea.

 

[Walt]

Notice that Russia didn't attack Ukraine while Trump was in his first term

The plan was to attack in late Winter of 2020, when trump was president. It was delayed due to Covid. As it turned out, that was a mistake made by Putin. Biden was much more willing to help Ukraine than trump ever would have been.

It is another example of fast being better than perfect.

 

[Hawkeye10]

I think they've made mistakes and know it, but I think they've been relatively minor ones. Ukraine and the west, on the other hand...

Why Romania was so important that they cancelled an election when the people chose wrong is now clear. Also add in the narrative for why the Telegram founder was arrested was all about the brain washing programs the bankers are running in Romania...Telegram was causing too many problems.

 

[Hawkeye10]

The plan was to attack in late Winter of 2020, when trump was president. It was delayed due to Covid. As it turned out, that was a mistake made by Putin. Biden was much more willing to help Ukraine than trump ever would have been.

It is another example of fast being better than perfect.

BullShit....there was a massive ramp up of NATO's Ukraine operations during the Trump Presidency.

 

[Scott]

Why Romania was so important that they cancelled an election when the people chose wrong is now clear. Also add in the narrative for why the Telegram founder was arrested was all about the brain washing programs the bankers are running in Romania...Telegram was causing too many problems.

I think the western elites are making bigger and bigger mistakes as time goes by. In their panic, they're grasping too tightly to the reins of power. Power is like water- grasp it too tightly, and the pressure makes it erupt, grasp it too losely and it slips through your hands.