Physical materialism

[Cypress]

Nonsense. Calculus is required in virtually all graduate programs. All of the millions of Americans with a Masters or better have learned it.

The vast majority of people who took calculus 30 years ago in college have gotten so rusty at it, they could not apply it in real life situations.

At any rate "millions of Americans" is only a tiny minority of this nation of 340 million people, so that is consistent with my statement that relatively few Americans know or can apply calculus.

Liberty as necessary to the development of human society can be and has been scientifically demonstrated.

Incorrect. There is no scientific and no mathematical definition of liberty, love, or fairness. Not everyone even agrees on what constitutes liberty.

Science is not a god, or a philosophy. It is a tool for discovery. As with a hammer, it is an extremely useful tool. Also it is not the only tool for every job.

I invite you to find and link to a post where I stated science is a god.

 

[Cypress]

He's also a moron who is too retarded to understand that I changed my name from "Doc Dutch" back to "Dutch Uncle" long before May 7th of this year. Something a true newbie wouldn't know, but a Down Syndrome adult or retard would not connect.

Sad, but it's more evidence that Perry lacks the cognitive capacity of a normal adult.

He got really mad at me for saying he used socks, even though he later admitted to using socks.

It's not often people get angry at you for stating the truth!

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

It's like you didn't read my post at all, and only responded to what you wish I wrotew, not what I actually wrote.

that's just called science, not scientism.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

He got really mad at me for saying he used socks, even though he later admitted to using socks.

It's not often people get angry at you for stating the truth!

Perry has a childlike brain. His immaturity is one of his greatest weaknesses.

 

[Uncensored2008]

The vast majority of people who took calculus 30 years ago in college have gotten so rusty at it, they could not apply it in real life situations.

So what?

It's not something people use daily.

At any rate "millions of Americans" is only a tiny minority of this nation of 340 million people, so that is consistent with my statement that relatively few Americans know or can apply calculus.

As of 2024, approximately 14.4% of Americans hold a graduate degree, which includes master's, professional, and doctoral degrees. This reflects a growing trend in higher education attainment in the U.S.

nu.edu​

Pew Research Center​

Graduate Degree Attainment in the U.S.​

Overall Percentage​

• As of 2024, approximately 14.4% of Americans hold a graduate degree, which includes master's, professional, and doctoral degrees.

Breakdown by Demographics​

Overall Population	14.4%
Asian Americans	20.5%
White Americans	13.5%
Black Americans	9.5%
Hispanic Americans	7.0%

[th]

Demographic Group​

[/th][th]

Percentage with Graduate Degree​

[/th]​

Trends Over Time​

• The percentage of adults with graduate degrees has been steadily increasing, reflecting a growing emphasis on higher education in the job market.

Importance of Graduate Degrees​

• Graduate degrees often lead to higher earning potential and better job opportunities. Individuals with graduate degrees typically earn significantly more than those with only a bachelor's degree.

This data highlights the increasing value placed on advanced education in the United States.

Incorrect. There is no scientific and no mathematical definition of liberty, love, or fairness. Not everyone even agrees on what constitutes liberty.

False. The impact of liberty and liberal societies has been documents and researched. Particularly the impact on innovation and economic growth.

It was the basis of the doctoral thesis of Murray Rothbard/

I invite you to find and link to a post where I stated science is a god.

Clumsy.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

It's like you didn't read my post at all, and only responded to what you wish I wrotew, not what I actually wrote.

Sybil be cray-cray. He lives in a fantasy world....with rubber walls. LOL

 

[domer76]

Nonetheless, Richard Dawkins made money from suckers just like all those televangelists did.

Why do you refuse to agree they share the same mindset?

Are they of the same mindset? I don’t know. Does Dawkins get tax free status on his book sales like these churches do with their donations? Probably not. Is Dawkins telling you that you are damned for all eternity if you don’t buy into his stuff? Probably not.

So, I guess they are the same. Probably not.

 

[domer76]

A question that limits people to a black & white answer. I think there's more to existence than our corporeal bodies. I think some part of who we are transcends death but I also believe that we won't remain individuals. More like the "tears in the rain" thing. A drop in the ocean.

Some fear it because they fear losing themselves. Others see it as an opportunity to become part of something greater. Some think "when yur ded, yur ded". Weird, eh?

OK. So, now you’re claiming there’s something to us that resides outside our bodies and remains part of us even after we die. Is that correct?

Now, if I’m correct, that means you’re talking about an existence after death. An afterlife. Of course, there is no evidence and never has been any evidence of that. So now you’re talking about faith, which is belief without evidence.

Faith is fine as long as you can admit that’s what it is.

 

[domer76]

You're always demeaning and belligerent when someone doesn't agree 110 percent with your militant and uncompromising atheism.

Angry atheists are never a good look.

I'm not smart enough to know what the answer is. I'm saying reason, consciousness, imagination is something beyond physics and chemistry. We don't have a science to explain it. It's possible it's something transcendental, it's possible we are participating in some kind of universal Tao. Who knows?

On the other hand, I'm willing to hear someone convince me that consciousness, imagination, love, conscience is nothing more than the motions of inanimate electrons in your skull.

Where do you think your consciousness, your imagination, your love or any other emotion goes after you die? I’ve been around a few dead people in my life and have seen nothing more than an inanimate object. And not one of them has contacted me to inform me otherwise.

Faith is belief without evidence. Call it what it is and that’s fine.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Are they of the same mindset? I don’t know. Does Dawkins get tax free status on his book sales like these churches do with their donations? Probably not. Is Dawkins telling you that you are damned for all eternity if you don’t buy into his stuff? Probably not.

So, I guess they are the same. Probably not.

Money, money, money. Yes, same mindset. All anyone has to do to get tax free status is comply with 501(c)(3) rules. You and I could start our own church in honor of Trump: Church of the Holy Adulterer. LOL

Churches, integrated auxiliaries and conventions or associations of churches | Internal Revenue Service

Automatic revocation of exemption for non-filing - treatment of churches and certain other religious organizations

www.irs.gov

Charitable organizations
Organizations organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, testing for public safety, literary, educational, or other specified purposes and that meet certain other requirements are tax exempt under Internal Revenue Code Section 501(c)(3).

Churches and religious organizations
Churches and religious organizations, like many other charitable organizations, may qualify for exemption from federal income tax under Section 501(c)(3).

 

[domer76]

To me, it's self-evident that there is an immaterial reality that transcends the human brain. The mathematical laws of the universe and the laws of logic were discovered by humans because, uniquely among animals, out minds have the ability of abstract thought and the potential to transcend itself and transcend the plane of physical matter.

Perhaps so on the abilities of the human mind. But all your thoughts are initiated inside your brain. They don’t arrive from some mysterious place out in the ether. And your brain works on chemical interactions, not by some transcendent puppet master somewhere “out there”. Neuroscientists can tell you that.

We humans have survived long enough to be able to have this conversation simply as a matter of evolution. We had no particular physical abilities to survive and reproduce other than a more highly developed brain. We learned how to make tools and weapons and use fire, etc. rather than depend on speed, agility, size, etc. for survival.

You keep talking about this immaterial thing, but haven’t indicated where and how it resides outside our bodies. Dude, that’s called faith.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Perhaps so on the abilities of the human mind. But all your thoughts are initiated inside your brain. They don’t arrive from some mysterious place out in the ether. And your brain works on chemical interactions, not by some transcendent puppet master somewhere “out there”. Neuroscientists can tell you that.

We humans have survived long enough to be able to have this conversation simply as a matter of evolution. We had no particular physical abilities to survive and reproduce other than a more highly developed brain. We learned how to make tools and weapons and use fire, etc. rather than depend on speed, agility, size, etc. for survival.

You keep talking about this immaterial thing, but haven’t indicated where and how it resides outside our bodies. Dude, that’s called faith.

There is nothing immoral about killing meat robots. At worse, it's like killing a dog. Amirite?

 

[domer76]

Money, money, money. Yes, same mindset. All anyone has to do to get tax free status is comply with 501(c)(3) rules. You and I could start our own church in honor of Trump: Church of the Holy Adulterer. LOL

Churches, integrated auxiliaries and conventions or associations of churches | Internal Revenue Service

Automatic revocation of exemption for non-filing - treatment of churches and certain other religious organizations

www.irs.gov

Charitable organizations
Organizations organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, testing for public safety, literary, educational, or other specified purposes and that meet certain other requirements are tax exempt under Internal Revenue Code Section 501(c)(3).

Churches and religious organizations
Churches and religious organizations, like many other charitable organizations, may qualify for exemption from federal income tax under Section 501(c)(3).

Yeah, except you didn’t answer the question.

Does Dawkins get a tax free status from the sales of his books? Probably not.
Does Dawkins put the fear of eternal damnation into you if you disagree or disregard his message? Of course not.

Dawkins was a well known evolutionary biologist before he got on his atheist kick. That’s a tad bit different than the pickpocket televangelists promising you salvation in exchange for cash.

I really don’t give much of a shit for Dawkins myself. Kinda like Dr. Kevorkian. Right message. Wrong messenger. I prefer the Sagan type of atheist.

 

[domer76]

There is nothing immoral about killing meat robots. At worse, it's like killing a dog. Amirite?

If I knew what the fuck you were talking about, it would be helpful.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Yeah, except you didn’t answer the question.

Does Dawkins get a tax free status from the sales of his books? Probably not.
Does Dawkins put the fear of eternal damnation into you if you disagree or disregard his message? Of course not.

Dawkins was a well known evolutionary biologist before he got on his atheist kick. That’s a tad bit different than the pickpocket televangelists promising you salvation in exchange for cash.

I really don’t give much of a shit for Dawkins myself. Kinda like Dr. Kevorkian. Right message. Wrong messenger. I prefer the Sagan type of atheist.

IDK. Do you agree that if he could apply for the tax exempt status as could you and I? I'm an ordained minister. Online, but the First Amendment protects that too. Same goes for the 14th Amendment Equal Protection Clause.

Your defense of Dawkins conflicts with your claims. Weird!

 

[Dutch Uncle]

If I knew what the fuck you were talking about, it would be helpful.

Just look at the flowers, domer76. It will all be over soon.

 

[domer76]

IDK. Do you agree that if he could apply for the tax exempt status as could you and I? I'm an ordained minister. Online, but the First Amendment protects that too. Same goes for the 14th Amendment Equal Protection Clause.

Your defense of Dawkins conflicts with your claims. Weird!

I’m not asking if he “could”, Jethro. I’m asking if he DOES. And of course he doesn’t.

You’re trying to make some leap of logic and “could” bullshit to try to equate someone like Dawkins with fear mongering Bible thumpers. You may not like either, but they are just not the same animal, dude.

I told you I don’t give a shit for Dawkins. Let’s use another atheist then. Carl Sagan. Now, go ahead and tell me the same thing about how he and your televangelist are the same.

 

[gmark77]

If I knew what the fuck you were talking about, it would be helpful.

Oh it's just the standard point that "Atheists and Materialists are so eeeebil that everything they want to do is kill and murder and all manner of evil because they are eeeeeeeeeeevil"

Most of the posters on here who hate atheism can think only of evil things atheists have done and they will try to drive the conversation that way. As an atheist how can you kick puppies into garbage cans? How can you support the wholesale murder of millions like Stalin? It's so tiring.

Ugh.

 

[domer76]

Just look at the flowers, domer76. It will all be over soon.

It always is over at some point. For all of us. I’m just not under the illusion that I’m coming back in my ghost sheets to visit you as Christmas Past.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I’m not asking if he “could”, Jethro. I’m asking if he DOES. And of course he doesn’t.

You’re trying to make some leap of logic and “could” bullshit to try to equate someone like Dawkins with fear mongering Bible thumpers. You may not like either, but they are just not the same animal, dude.

I told you I don’t give a shit for Dawkins. Let’s use another atheist then. Carl Sagan. Now, go ahead and tell me the same thing about how he and your televangelist are the same.

You just want to bang your head against a wall and call it "discussing". I suspect it's how your parents handled things at home.

Your assumptions are juvenile and unsophisticated. Mostly emotion. Heated rhetoric with name-calling when you don't get your way, lies about others and leaping to assumptions for things never posted.

An intelligent, educated and rational person posts with calm, logic and references. Enjoy your hate.