US falls to average in education ranking

Yea..if it wasn't for them these kids would be learning important concepts like ID Creationism, science denial, how scientist and mathematicians are subhuman geeks and then you could put money into truly important educational subjects, like football and basketball, instead of hiring qualified science educators at market value. You could then do away with godless atheistic classes like biology and chemistry and allow those kdis to pray their empty little heads off.

You're an idiot if you think the Dept. of Education has anything to do with this declline. Hell if anything they deserve all sorts of credit for slowing the decline and preventing it from being worse then it is.

The real fault lies with all those parents who hold Michael Jordan as a greater role model then Stephen J. Gould or Allen Turing. I don't care how much money you put into education or how great the teachers are, as long as mouth breathing parents teach their kids to focus on really important subjects like basketball and football we will continue to see these declines.

Put the fault where it really belongs. The parents of our kids.

You're totally wrong.

We sent people to the moon without any Department of Education, or unionized schools. We did a lot without them. Sense they've come around they've turned out people like you who worship the very idea of big govt.

Parents are to busy working to pay taxes in addition to trying to provide for their family for no other reason than bad policies made by politicians.

The Department of Education is Marxism anyway. There's nothing good about Marxism. Nothing at all. You arguing about it makes you look like an uneducated ding dong. It's just the same as someone saying that serial killing pedophiles are great people, and should be tolerated. And your phobia about religion is no reason to embrace Marxism, or Communisim.

The Department of Education does nothing to educate kids. They only make educating them harder.
 
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You're totally wrong.

We sent people to the moon without any Department of Education, or unionized schools. We did a lot without them. Sense they've come around they've turned out people like you who worship the very idea of big govt.

Parents are to busy working to pay taxes in addition to trying to provide for their family for no other reason than bad policies made by politicians.

The Department of Education is Marxism anyway. There's nothing good about Marxism. Nothing at all. You arguing about it makes you look like an uneducated ding dong. It's just the same as someone saying that serial killing pedophiles are great people, and should be tolerated. And your phobia about religion is no reason to embrace Marxism, or Communisim.

The Department of Education does nothing to educate kids. They only make educating them harder.
The Scientists that actually sent those men to the moon, the real hardcore ones, that new their rocketry up one side and down the other, were mostly products of a German education system. Without the men from Penemunde the US space program would have been further behind. They came from a system that had ONE minister of education and ONE standard even all the way back then. The Prussian system was rigorous. So while there were alot of good American scientists at NASA, the best were men like Werner Von Braun and Gunter Wendt. "I vunder vhere Gunter vent?" One of my favorite lines from Apollo 13.
 
NCLB made it mandatory that ALL students take the tests...at least that is the interpretation of the Educational Leaders in my state. So here, all students take EOI's (End Of Instruction exams) every year, no exceptions. We have 7 of them and it is mandatory that they pass 4 out of the 7...two of them having to be Algebra I and English II. Some states may have found an "out" where their SE kids don't have to take the exams....and if they did I wish they'd come talk to our idiot leaders.

In our state they have also looked at lowering the passing score on the WASL for qualified special ed students who did not qualify for the WAAS test.

They do sound pretty idiotic...perhaps they can be tested before being put n their positions of decision makink?
 
You know, I am not opposed to me working year round, if the pay was adequate, and I'm not opposed to running a college like schedule for year-round school for older kids. I am adamantly opposed to little kids having to go through such a rigorous school year. Kids need time to be kids. My boy is 7, he is tops (2nd grade) of his class and tops of the class above him (3rd grade) in both test scores and performance. He is like talking to a little adult, part of which comes from being an only child and part of which comes from his above average intelligence. The elementary have been after me to move him up at least one grade and I keep refusing. He needs time to be a kid and do kid things.

As to year-round school, some folks look at it like you can get more information in there if you have more time with the kids...and to some extent that is true. Then there are folks who are for year-round school who want it because that provides them with year-round babysitting service. To sum up, for older kids I think it is OK but not for younger kids.

The real pro-side argument of year round school is that kids do not "forget" what they have learned. This is most strongly argued for with regards to math skills. I am not saying I agree, only that that is the actual pro year round argument.
 
In our state they have also looked at lowering the passing score on the WASL for qualified special ed students who did not qualify for the WAAS test.

They do sound pretty idiotic...perhaps they can be tested before being put n their positions of decision makink?

Gotta love the WASL!!!
 
I've been reading the posts of pinheads on this site (and others) for a few years now
and there is no way the US is even close to average in education or intelligence in general.....not if what I see online is any indication of it.....
 
I've been reading the posts of pinheads on this site (and others) for a few years now
and there is no way the US is even close to average in education or intelligence in general.....not if what I see online is any indication of it.....
Now, come on bravo, don't be that hard on yourself, I still like you even though you feel this way about yourself!
 
1. What did you expect with "progressives" having a death grip around the neck of our education system?
2. The "No Child Left Behind Act", which you seem to have nothing but disdain for, was penned primarily by Ted Kennedy at the behest of George Bush.
3. A personal anecdote from my own school daze: The eighth grade was the most difficult year for me. We had moved to a bad suburb of Washinton D.C., and the schools had a (well deserved) sinister reputation. My parents enrolled my sister and I in a local Catholic school. BIG culture shock after 7 years of public school! I immediately fell far behind. By the end of the year, I was not at the top of the list or anything like that, but I was doing above average work and it was actually interesting and challenging. It was absolutely amazing what a stereotypical rap on the knuckles with a ruler or an open-handed slap in the back of the head by a bride of Christ can accomplish. Try something like that in a classroom today and you find yourself in jail. BTW, I look back on that year with nothing but love and respect for those educators. They taught me discipline and, oddly enough, respect for myself and my capabilities.

I'm the opposite story:

7 grades in catholic school, the rest at public school.

I was miles ahead of the public school class thanks to St Annes and those awesome nuns.

The public school teachers hated me because I didn't have to pay attention to anything they had to say. I got As without studying and did my homework before class.

All I wanted was to fit in at that age. Being a new kid sucked.
 
LowIQ hit the nail on the head. The biggest problem with the current education system is not poor teachers - though we do have an unfortunately large share of them. It's not from lack of funding - though what funding there is certainly needs to be spent more efficiently - fewer administrators would mean more money for more and better teachers, among many other things, including the billions wasted on nationalized mandatory (and quite useless) testing.

No, where the main problem lies is the modern U.S. attitude in education that little Johnny's feelings of self worth are more important than whether he can actually readd when he leaves the 8th grade. The problem lies within the overall attitude of entitlement our society has developed, that somehow mere existence should automatically be rewarded with nothing but success and praise for doing nothing.

It may sound harsh, but the truth is often harsh. We do need to reinvent the concept of losers - because with our current lie that everyone is a winner regardless of how much they work at it, is turning us into a nation of mostly losers who don't even have the background in critical thinking to know it. We need to get back to the days when grades were handed out based on actual performance, with comments giving credence to effort rather than basing 50% (or more) of the grade on perceived effort. (ie - any excuse will do to get the little yard ape the hell outta the classroom and on to the next).

We need to get back to a system that rewards extraordinary effort AND extraordinary ability. We need to get students with extraordinary ability and group them with each other. Fine minds feed off each other. As it is now, treating exceptional learners differently is somehow perceived by the touchy-feely psycho-babble morons as "unfair" to other students. Yet at the same time we'll spend 10 times as much as the average student on the mentally handicapped - and somehow that IS fair? Yes, the special needs students need extra help. But guess what SO DO THE ADVANCED LEARNERS!!!

In short, we need to get back to a system that rewards - or punishes if need be - the actual output of the individual students. We need to group better performers with better performers - that would take a HUGE load off teachers from trying to accommodate the too wide learning gap we see in classrooms today. We need to hold back students who are not making the grade. We need to actually have the GALL to discipline those who desperately need it, and actually (GASP!) FLUNK those who cannot (or, more often, will not) do the work and gain the knowledge supposedly represented by passing.

We need to recognize students who put in top effort by giving them top prizes. I don't know how it is elsewhere, but here they did away with valedictorian because it was "unfair". Bullshit. The incidence of top students getting out in the community as part of their education has fallen over 60%, since they no longer have any motivation to do more than maintain their 4.0 average. (Which is a lot easier to get these days, since the incidence of 4.0 graduates hass risen by 50% the last decade - and I guarandamntee you it is not because they are doing better academic work!!)

Yes, we need to reinstate the concept of winners and losers. Everyone WANTS to win, so making it hard to win makes most people try harder. How is it "winning" if we give blue ribbons to everyone just for showing up? For MOST people (contrary to the touchy-feely psychobabble morons theories) losing results in trying harder the next time. MOST children have a decently strong self concept to accept that it takes HARD WORK to win. Our youth have become mental wimps because they are cushioned from the concept of losing - and their educations are one of the biggest failures do to that "no losers" whiney assed concept.
 
The Scientists that actually sent those men to the moon, the real hardcore ones, that new their rocketry up one side and down the other, were mostly products of a German education system. Without the men from Penemunde the US space program would have been further behind. They came from a system that had ONE minister of education and ONE standard even all the way back then. The Prussian system was rigorous. So while there were alot of good American scientists at NASA, the best were men like Werner Von Braun and Gunter Wendt. "I vunder vhere Gunter vent?" One of my favorite lines from Apollo 13.

I'm to drunk at the moment and I'm unable to respond to your post at the moment.

But I have a reply.
 
The Scientists that actually sent those men to the moon, the real hardcore ones, that new their rocketry up one side and down the other, were mostly products of a German education system. Without the men from Penemunde the US space program would have been further behind. They came from a system that had ONE minister of education and ONE standard even all the way back then. The Prussian system was rigorous. So while there were alot of good American scientists at NASA, the best were men like Werner Von Braun and Gunter Wendt. "I vunder vhere Gunter vent?" One of my favorite lines from Apollo 13.
Your analysis leaves out, quite unfairly, the engineers and fabricators at places like Lockheed, Rockwell, McDonald-Douglass, and many others that took the designs and concepts of the "real hard core ones" and hammered them into working, often one-of-a-kind, machinery intended to do something no one had ever done before.
 
Your analysis leaves out, quite unfairly, the engineers and fabricators at places like Lockheed, Rockwell, McDonald-Douglass, and many others that took the designs and concepts of the "real hard core ones" and hammered them into working, often one-of-a-kind, machinery intended to do something no one had ever done before.

You're getting sidetracked into a debate about whether we were idiots compared to Germans during the Space Race. This began as a discussion on current academic levels of our schools. Back in the 1960s, most of those guys who had graduated public school, actually had to do homework, make the grades, and pass the classes, in order to graduate and get a degree. Nowadays, the system is so fucked up, you don't need to take the tests, do the homework, or make the grades to pass, and you can still get a degree online.

We're light years away from the school system we had back in the 60s, or even the 70s and 80s! What we have now, is liberal socialist indoctrination camps. This system isn't going to fix itself. If we are passive or reluctant to deal with it, the indoctrinations will continue, and in another 20 years, we won't have to worry about it anymore, we'll be the former Soviet Union, with a nation full of undereducated Marxists running everything.
 
LowIQ hit the nail on the head. The biggest problem with the current education system is not poor teachers - though we do have an unfortunately large share of them. It's not from lack of funding - though what funding there is certainly needs to be spent more efficiently - fewer administrators would mean more money for more and better teachers, among many other things, including the billions wasted on nationalized mandatory (and quite useless) testing.

No, where the main problem lies is the modern U.S. attitude in education that little Johnny's feelings of self worth are more important than whether he can actually readd when he leaves the 8th grade. The problem lies within the overall attitude of entitlement our society has developed, that somehow mere existence should automatically be rewarded with nothing but success and praise for doing nothing.

It may sound harsh, but the truth is often harsh. We do need to reinvent the concept of losers - because with our current lie that everyone is a winner regardless of how much they work at it, is turning us into a nation of mostly losers who don't even have the background in critical thinking to know it. We need to get back to the days when grades were handed out based on actual performance, with comments giving credence to effort rather than basing 50% (or more) of the grade on perceived effort. (ie - any excuse will do to get the little yard ape the hell outta the classroom and on to the next).

We need to get back to a system that rewards extraordinary effort AND extraordinary ability. We need to get students with extraordinary ability and group them with each other. Fine minds feed off each other. As it is now, treating exceptional learners differently is somehow perceived by the touchy-feely psycho-babble morons as "unfair" to other students. Yet at the same time we'll spend 10 times as much as the average student on the mentally handicapped - and somehow that IS fair? Yes, the special needs students need extra help. But guess what SO DO THE ADVANCED LEARNERS!!!

In short, we need to get back to a system that rewards - or punishes if need be - the actual output of the individual students. We need to group better performers with better performers - that would take a HUGE load off teachers from trying to accommodate the too wide learning gap we see in classrooms today. We need to hold back students who are not making the grade. We need to actually have the GALL to discipline those who desperately need it, and actually (GASP!) FLUNK those who cannot (or, more often, will not) do the work and gain the knowledge supposedly represented by passing.

We need to recognize students who put in top effort by giving them top prizes. I don't know how it is elsewhere, but here they did away with valedictorian because it was "unfair". Bullshit. The incidence of top students getting out in the community as part of their education has fallen over 60%, since they no longer have any motivation to do more than maintain their 4.0 average. (Which is a lot easier to get these days, since the incidence of 4.0 graduates hass risen by 50% the last decade - and I guarandamntee you it is not because they are doing better academic work!!)

Yes, we need to reinstate the concept of winners and losers. Everyone WANTS to win, so making it hard to win makes most people try harder. How is it "winning" if we give blue ribbons to everyone just for showing up? For MOST people (contrary to the touchy-feely psychobabble morons theories) losing results in trying harder the next time. MOST children have a decently strong self concept to accept that it takes HARD WORK to win. Our youth have become mental wimps because they are cushioned from the concept of losing - and their educations are one of the biggest failures do to that "no losers" whiney assed concept.
The weakest link syndrome.
 
Power the PEOPLE!!!!


And look where populism, and the belief that America should be a democracy rather than an enlightened republic, has gotten us as of year-end 2010.
 
I must admit that if they made vouchers available only to lower income folks and came up with a concrete ceiling that was appropriate I'd be less likely to oppose them at this time. I wouldn't qualify for vouchers with the ceiling that I have in mind. I know I could cut some excess expenses to pay for my son's education if I didn't think the public school he attends was doing an adequate job. It is my belief that the best way for a person to overcome poverty is through education. With this in mind an opportunity would be given to the poorer in society to get a child out of a failing school if necessary. Under this circumstance is the only way I would ever think about supporting vouchers. And yes, my views on this have changed over the years....and may again.
 
When we were at the top in the world in education the top tax rate was 90%.

Want top education rates again?????

FUCKING PAY THE COST OF GOOD EDUCATION
 
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