"A Republic, if you can keep it."

Iolo/Penderyn said:
Think about it: capitalists exist by stealing a good chunk of the price of commodities from those who produce them. To stop them taking back their property they need a police force. To steal from other countries they need an army. To keep the mugs quiet they need schools to brainwash them. And so on, and so on and so on.
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are those capitalists keeping those laborers as slaves?????? or is there an agreement between employer/employee to produce something for an agreed upon price?
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch Uncle,



Yeah, I liked that one. It's amazing. Nearly all the arguments seen in this forum were covered by TR in that one speech. Good thing it was springtime. Those people would have been dying of the heat had he tried to deliver an oratory that long in the summer.
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but you're still for corporate speech suppression, right?
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed. What they need are jobs. The whole "give a man a fish or teach them how to fish" concept. Sure, for some, the $1200 put food on the table for a month or more, but then what?

Teddy's speech spoke about good people needing to work, to carry their weight. I've always felt that wasn't like a parent telling a child to do chores, but as the path people need to take to have self-worth. How can a person have self-worth if they are a mooch? A parasite on taxpayers?
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it's tough during a lockdown, shithead.
 
Hello Dutch Uncle,

Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed. What they need are jobs. The whole "give a man a fish or teach them how to fish" concept. Sure, for some, the $1200 put food on the table for a month or more, but then what?

Teddy's speech spoke about good people needing to work, to carry their weight. I've always felt that wasn't like a parent telling a child to do chores, but as the path people need to take to have self-worth. How can a person have self-worth if they are a mooch? A parasite on taxpayers?
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That is going to become a more prescient question as relentless capitalism eliminates ever-more well paying jobs and relegates them to starvation wages and automation. We are rapidly approaching a state of technology where there simply won't be enough fulfilling work for everyone to have a good job (if we haven't already reached that point.) Eventually we will simply have a UBI. Jobs will become less common and more specialized. Much of what a lot of workers do will simply not have to be done any more. As capitalists push for more and more reduction in the cost of labor, and fewer and fewer good jobs are available, with decreasing benefits, this will produce greater profits for the owners of capital, and with that, the ability for the super-rich to pay greater and greater taxes. And that will be needed to fund the UBI of the future.

I don't really see how anybody can stop this. Oh, the battles will be fought. But it will be like trying to hold back the tide.

People are going to have more and more leisure time. People are going to have to figure out what to do with themselves.

Unless some new and very creative type of work can be created...
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch Uncle,



That is going to become a more prescient question as relentless capitalism eliminates ever-more well paying jobs and relegates them to starvation wages and automation. We are rapidly approaching a state of technology where there simply won't be enough fulfilling work for everyone to have a good job (if we haven't already reached that point.) Eventually we will simply have a UBI. Jobs will become less common and more specialized. Much of what a lot of workers do will simply not have to be done any more. As capitalists push for more and more reduction in the cost of labor, and fewer and fewer good jobs are available, with decreasing benefits, this will produce greater profits for the owners of capital, and with that, the ability for the super-rich to pay greater and greater taxes. And that will be needed to fund the UBI of the future.

I don't really see how anybody can stop this. Oh, the battles will be fought. But it will be like trying to hold back the tide.

People are going to have more and more leisure time. People are going to have to figure out what to do with themselves.

Unless some new and very creative type of work can be created...
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What those on the right aren't seeing is that "relentless capitalism" is self-defeating. It's the equivalent of Marie Antoinette's apocryphal "Let them eat cake". Regardless who has the guns, the poor outnumber the rich. If things become bad enough, they will overrun the rich like the VC overran Firebase Gloria or, as with the French Revolution, start executing the elitists for public pleasure.

 
PoliTalker said:
Sure would be nice to hear a president talk like this:

"Of one man in especial, beyond any one else, the citizens of a republic should beware, and that is of the man who appeals to them to support him on the ground that he is hostile to other citizens of the republic, that he will secure for those who elect him, in one shape or another, profit at the expense of other citizens of the republic. It makes no difference whether he appeals to class hatred or class interest, to religious or antireligious prejudice. The man who makes such an appeal should always be presumed to make it for the sake of furthering his own interest. The very last thing an intelligent and self-respecting member of a democratic community should do is to reward any public man because that public man says that he will get the private citizen something to which this private citizen is not entitled, or will gratify some emotion or animosity which this private citizen ought not to possess. "
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Flash said:
Your quote said "entitled", not "need"
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The quote is from President Teddy Roosevelt's "Citizen in a Republic"speech. It's 16 pages, a bit over long in spots, but if you scroll through the quotes Politalker and myself posted, you might agree there's a lot of good stuff there. Roosevelt is identifying or warning about major problems with our Republic that we are seeing today.


Dutch Uncle said:
Welcome to the club. A favorite speech on this subject is from Theodore Roosevelt's "Citizenship In A Republic" speech: https://www.leadershipnow.com/tr-citizenship.html

It always sucks to be in the middle with the extremists on all, mainly both, sides pounding at you. Many can't take it and they join a safe side. They give up principles for the illusion of safety. That's a very short term, self-defeating strategy, IMO. Better to fight the good fight up front before things go too far.
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AssHatZombie said:
excellent point, no argument man.
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Of course not. You are either Legion or just another member of the atheist anarchist anti-American, anti-Capitalism Asshat Legion. Like peas in a pod.

4qg9o5.jpg
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Of course not. You are either Legion or just another member of the atheist anarchist anti-American, anti-Capitalism Asshat Legion. Like peas in a pod.

4qg9o5.jpg
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I pray to our lord jesus christ to deliver you from your demonic attachments, and your own personal compulsions towards lies and sophistry. amen.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
only slave minded morons would consider tyranny of the majority as forward progress..........you don't know jack shit about the framers other than your hatred because of slavery........a monumentally stupid position
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Yeah, I should stop hurting their feelings over slavery.

Seriously, do you think they all agreed about the electoral college, etc.?
 
Dutch Uncle said:
You mean the average American male? If so, then your racism streak is showing.

It's well known that the most common "race" in the US is Eurocentric. Half the population is male, duh. Average age of US population is a number, 36.6. Average good health and childlessness...that last being an interesting choice from you.

Good health can be a matter of debate. IMO, most Americans are not very healthy:
https://www.hhs.gov/fitness/resource-center/facts-and-statistics/index.html

Childlessness can be a matter of choice. There are medical and legal alternatives to those seeking to have children but cannot.
https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2017/08/more-adults-living-without-children.html

Ergo, your description of an average Libertarian is an average American male. Isn't that a good thing?
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I'm honestly beginning to wonder if you have dementia, and maybe you ought not to post unsupervised? What is the purpose of this nonsense?

Anxiously awaiting your smug, non-reply.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Wow! I can't wait to see you sell that point to SCOTUS. ;)

By removing the EC you are removing a buffer, a layer between your freedom and a fucking moron like Donald J. Trump.

<Insert meme: "Trump, gunfighter pose; "LIKE YOUR FREEDOM?">
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Well we know this isn't true, considering we'd never have 4 years of Trump if the EC had never been a thing.
 
Jerome said:
Well we know this isn't true, considering we'd never have 4 years of Trump if the EC had never been a thing.
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Which is another reason why I don't believe you have passed the bar. Agreed, in 2016 Hillary would have won if it was a popular vote. Is there a guarantee it wouldn't be Trump or someone like him next time? People far wiser than yourself know 1) it's not smart to fuck with the Constitution and 2) due to the Law of Unintended Consequences, it's wise to be careful what one asks for.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Which is another reason why I don't believe you have passed the bar. Agreed, in 2016 Hillary would have won if it was a popular vote. Is there a guarantee it wouldn't be Trump or someone like him next time? People far wiser than yourself know 1) it's not smart to fuck with the Constitution and 2) due to the Law of Unintended Consequences, it's wise to be careful what one asks for.
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not valuing the constitution is the main lesson of law school. have yoi ever met a lawyer?
 
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