"A Republic, if you can keep it."

Dutch Uncle said:
Aw shit, dude! Lemme guess, you are a legal student currently volunteering (meaning no pay, class credit only) for some civil rights group, probably racially oriented. You've been "working" there for three years and still haven't passed the bar. How close am I?
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Not even the correct galaxy, and once again your obsession with my identity borders on being worthy of investigation -- or at minimum, a therapist.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
My education is not in the law or in government, so I'm not my personal first choice to write a new constitution. I believe in academic elitism when it comes to these matters. I'm not a populist.

I don't want a new constitutional convention convened with representation from states that are ideologically incompatible... that have people who want a totally different world than one another.

PoiiTalker obviously doesn't see what I see in the extent of polarization we have now. What I see is both irreparable and not worth the effort to repair if it was.

Education problem? No doubt. We've not made a sufficient commitment to education.
But we have states who'd put things like "creationism" in the public school curriculum.
That's not OK. I'm unwilling to accept theocrats at my constitutional convention. I don't accept they're being on my planet, but I'll settle for them not being in my nation.

Apathy? We just outvoted our last general election by about twenty million votes. People came out to vote. And they voted roughly 50/50 for totally incompatible values.
Incompatibility is our problem, not apathy.
PoliTalker is willing to accept less than I am.
PoliTalker is willing to break bread with racists, xenophobes, misogynists, religious bigots, and worst of all. anti-intellectuals.
People from bright red states are not people who should be sharing a government and tax codes and borders with more refined people with more liberal values.

I went to grade school school at the height of the cold war in the 1950s.
In retrospect, the education that I received at that level was a disgrace.
We were fed incredible right wing propaganda as the congress conducted its deplorable hearings.
We were coerced into beginning the day with prayers.
I had elementary school teachers with incredibly racist ideas...in Boston, mind you, not Bald Knob, Indiana. Imagine what those kids got
And we were told that we were the most moral and at the same time powerful people in the world,
but then I got drafted to murder freedom-fighting Asians with whom I had no grievance, and guess what? We got beat.

I saw the separate water fountains and rest rooms when traveling with my parents, so at a very young age, I understood that there were places much worse than home.

Today, we call those places Red State America. They should have been the Confederate States of America but the people who were here before my people arrived really fucked up.
Look what we've got instead.
PoliTalker likes it. He feels we can work with it. He thinks that there's hope. But then again, he probably bought all that bullshit they taught him in grade school.

I think a better standard of living, top to bottom, is far more important than preserving that dream of a United States of America.
It never was what we were told that it was, and it never will be.

I'm the one not afraid to try something better.
As I keep saying, catastrophic problems are not resolved with moderate solutions.
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This is precisely what we've been dealing with since 1776. The Southeastern United States simply cannot let go of their anger at allowing black people to attain personhood, property, the vote, etc. That's why they let half their soldiering-age population die over it in a civil war, and it's why it took a Civil Rights law in 1965 to get them to allow full enfranchisement.

Everything since then -- whether it be fractures with the GOP over Supreme Court Justice hearings, lawsuits over Voter ID and affirmative action, etc. -- has been yet another in 250 years of tantrums from the Southern Racist States of America.

I'd love an economist to tell me the truth: How bad off would we really be if we just let the old CSA go this time? Imagine a country where we're not piling federal dollars into the dead weight of Alabama and Mississippi and Arkansas and Tennessee, and instead bolstering education and health care for everyone from NY to Minnesota to Oregon to Michigan?

The one and only compelling argument AGAINST letting the South fuck off this time is the plight of the poor people (particularly POC) who live in the South: They who do not have the means to move, and they who would certainly be living in apartheid state. It would be a living hell for them, and the rest of the country would have their blood on their hands.
 
Hello Jerome,

Jerome said:
This is precisely what we've been dealing with since 1776. The Southeastern United States simply cannot let go of their anger at allowing black people to attain personhood, property, the vote, etc. That's why they let half their soldiering-age population die over it in a civil war, and it's why it took a Civil Rights law in 1965 to get them to allow full enfranchisement.

Everything since then -- whether it be fractures with the GOP over Supreme Court Justice hearings, lawsuits over Voter ID and affirmative action, etc. -- has been yet another in 250 years of tantrums from the Southern Racist States of America.

I'd love an economist to tell me the truth: How bad off would we really be if we just let the old CSA go this time? Imagine a country where we're not piling federal dollars into the dead weight of Alabama and Mississippi and Arkansas and Tennessee, and instead bolstering education and health care for everyone from NY to Minnesota to Oregon to Michigan?

The one and only compelling argument AGAINST letting the South fuck off this time is the plight of the poor people (particularly POC) who live in the South: They who do not have the means to move, and they who would certainly be living in apartheid state. It would be a living hell for them, and the rest of the country would have their blood on their hands.
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Wishing for a broken country is not going to break it.

We are the UNITED States of America.

Most Americans want to keep on with all 50 States.

And look at all the progress we've made over the years. Sure, the South has been foot-dragging, but there has been real progress. Everybody hoped the aftermath of the Civil War would be over by now, but obviously it is going to take far longer than anybody ever knew. So what. Nobody has the right to expect a perfect country in their lifetime. It's always a work in progress. So it falls on us to carry the fight for equality forward. We should be proud to do our part for America, all of America, not giving up on any part of it.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Jerome,



Wishing for a broken country is not going to break it.

We are the UNITED States of America.

Most Americans want to keep on with all 50 States.

And look at all the progress we've made over the years. Sure, the South has been foot-dragging, but there has been real progress. Everybody hoped the aftermath of the Civil War would be over by now, but obviously it is going to take far longer than anybody ever knew. So what. Nobody has the right to expect a perfect country in their lifetime. It's always a work in progress. So it falls on us to carry the fight for equality forward. We should be proud to do our part for America, all of America, not giving up on any part of it.
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I'm not voting to break America. Fucksticks in Texas are the ones who want to secede.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch Uncle,

I'm sure we are both wrong on some points and right on others. but it's good that we can share views without making things personal. No point in that when talking about national and international issues.

Problem arises when we use a single word to describe entire political parties comprised of everything from paupers to elites.
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Agreed, man. The entire basis of the American Revolution was fighting for the right to be treated as an equal citizen. That fight continues today and I support that fight. Nobody is perfect, but we can all continue to do our best.

In many ways I see most US problems being one of a common language as you seem to allude with "a single word".

“England and America are two countries separated by the same language!”

Divisions like East/West, North/South and Coastal/Midland would be bad enough but toss in bullshit about race, history, language, yada, yada, yada, and most people lose interest. They have better things to do like work, feed the kids, move forward in their lives.

Even so, our elected leaders should both understand this and also be intelligent enough to both convey it to their states and honestly, and with honor, represent their states.
 
Jerome said:
Not even the correct galaxy, and once again your obsession with my identity borders on being worthy of investigation -- or at minimum, a therapist.
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Thank you for your response, sir. Contact this number: (202) 324-3000. Tell'em "Dutch sentcha'!" They already know me! LOL
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed, man. The entire basis of the American Revolution was fighting for the right to be treated as an equal citizen. That fight continues today and I support that fight. Nobody is perfect, but we can all continue to do our best.
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If that were true then why did/do we have slavery this far along in the course of history? All one has to do is look at how long it has been since Blacks were given the right to vote, and how often the right wants to take away that right, to see it is not true.
 
Hello Dutch Uncle,

Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed, man. The entire basis of the American Revolution was fighting for the right to be treated as an equal citizen. That fight continues today and I support that fight. Nobody is perfect, but we can all continue to do our best.

In many ways I see most US problems being one of a common language as you seem to allude with "a single word".

“England and America are two countries separated by the same language!”

Divisions like East/West, North/South and Coastal/Midland would be bad enough but toss in bullshit about race, history, language, yada, yada, yada, and most people lose interest. They have better things to do like work, feed the kids, move forward in their lives.

Even so, our elected leaders should both understand this and also be intelligent enough to both convey it to their states and honestly, and with honor, represent their states.
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Right on. Well said.

A lot of people just don't realize this country is STILL a work in progress. We have to do the work ourselves. And for those of us who shoulder that responsibility, the burden is multiplied by the number who shirk it.

These issues really matter, and the stuff we do determines how it is for generations to come.

We try to drag the burden further along but we never reach the destination in our lives. That is no reason to let up or give up!
 
Old Trapper said:
If that were true then why did/do we have slavery this far along in the course of history? All one has to do is look at how long it has been since Blacks were given the right to vote, and how often the right wants to take away that right, to see it is not true.
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You act like slavery was an American invention. It wasn't.

The facts remain the ideals of the Founders were to grant greater freedoms for all. Times, cultures and technology present some changes, but eventually truth always prevails. Not the bullshit out of a book, but the factual truth which works best for all humanity.

Killing each other or subjugating each other isn't an optimal solution IMO. Sometimes it must be done, but it's not what is best for all.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
You act like slavery was an American invention. It wasn't.

The facts remain the ideals of the Founders were to grant greater freedoms for all. Times, cultures and technology present some changes, but eventually truth always prevails. Not the bullshit out of a book, but the factual truth which works best for all humanity.

Killing each other or subjugating each other isn't an optimal solution IMO. Sometimes it must be done, but it's not what is best for all.
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Interesting that you should think "sometimes it must be done". Then too, you somehow got the asinine idea that I thought it was an "American" invention. Then too, you do ignore what I actually said.

Tell us, what were the "greater freedoms for ALL" that the Founders presented?
 
Old Trapper said:
Interesting that you should think "sometimes it must be done". Then too, you somehow got the asinine idea that I thought it was an "American" invention. Then too, you do ignore what I actually said.

Tell us, what were the "greater freedoms for ALL" that the Founders presented?
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Why is it interesting? Human history is written in blood. Only an idiot thinks we, the human race, are still not vicious apes with really cool tools.

Thanks for your bullshit answers on slavery. It tells everyone everything anyone needs to know about you.

What freedom do you want that you are not getting? I support you getting it. What I don't support is having to pay for your 16th Century French Art degree, "Old Trapper".

You should be free to do what you with whom any consenting adult(s) you desire. As Auntie Mame said, "Live! Life's a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death!"

Freedom is being able to exercise your inalienable right to live your life as you please without interference.

There is only one rule: don't harm anyone. Thoughts?
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Why is it interesting? Human history is written in blood. Only an idiot thinks we, the human race, are still not vicious apes with really cool tools.

Thanks for your bullshit answers on slavery. It tells everyone everything anyone needs to know about you.

What freedom do you want that you are not getting? I support you getting it. What I don't support is having to pay for your 16th Century French Art degree, "Old Trapper".

You should be free to do what you with whom any consenting adult(s) you desire. As Auntie Mame said, "Live! Life's a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death!"

Freedom is being able to exercise your inalienable right to live your life as you please without interference.

There is only one rule: don't harm anyone. Thoughts?
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Some of our ancestors pursued the good , they did better, they contributed to the building of civilization, of something of value.

All the Modern Morons of this Dark Age can manage is tearing down, regression.

It is a very sad story.

My heart weeps.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Why is it interesting? Human history is written in blood. Only an idiot thinks we, the human race, are still not vicious apes with really cool tools.

Thanks for your bullshit answers on slavery. It tells everyone everything anyone needs to know about you.

What freedom do you want that you are not getting? I support you getting it. What I don't support is having to pay for your 16th Century French Art degree, "Old Trapper".

You should be free to do what you with whom any consenting adult(s) you desire. As Auntie Mame said, "Live! Life's a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death!"

Freedom is being able to exercise your inalienable right to live your life as you please without interference.

There is only one rule: don't harm anyone. Thoughts?
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you're a completely full of shit, liar, imbecile. you're a totalitarian. you don't deserve to say the word freedom.

bankers and politicians rely on deception and violence to make people accept their fake money, and you defend the whole corrupt shitpie with your idiotic sophistry.
 
AssHatZombie said:
you're a completely full of shit, liar, imbecile. you're a totalitarian. you don't deserve to say the word freedom.

bankers and politicians rely on deception and violence to make people accept their fake money, and you defend the whole corrupt shitpie with your idiotic sophistry.
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We are neck deep in ignorant liars who have not the first fucking desire to be better people.

This is a Dark Age after all.

Some of us do better.

THE BETTER PEOPLE

By Definition.
 
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