Abortion: wrong or just sort of wrong?

XLVIII DOMINATORS said:
For somewhere in the range of 174 days, the dems had 60 senate votes and they owned the house. But as I said that discussion is an aside to your assertion that somehow congress could overturn Roe, an extremely controversial and divisive issue. The ONLY place the abortion law should be addressed is with SCOTUS. your question was a ridiculous one.

The issue of abortion always comes down to what are we as a nation sanctioning? Pro life advocates say it is lawful death of a human being that ought to be provided protection. Pro abotionists say the right to end that life ought to be the woman's as it is grow inside her body.

Pretending that pro life people should expect this law to be overturned by congress if they really want things to change is an untenable assertion for the reasons I have already addressed.
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Lol. You're so eager to hang a "gotcha" on me you can practically taste it. Okay, I'll play.

The SC has become more conservative since Rehnquist was Chief Justice and today's Roberts court has four really strong conservatives and a middle-of-the-roader. So when was the last time this court heard a challenge to Roe v. Wade and how did it shake out?
 
maineman said:
I agree.... SCOTUS is where Roe will be overturned, if it ever is....

which is one reason why I will ALWAYS vote for the democratic candidate for president.
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Technology in the area of Birth Control and early neonatal care is what will end the Abortion issue, until that time Roe will never be overturned. Roe will be amended and changed, it will be added to and chipped away at, but its like Obamacare, its the law of the land and it aint going to change much.
 
Jarod said:
All liberals I know want to stop it, just not by force of law.
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Well, we can always try appealing to the people's hearts. If there's one thing the masses are good at doing - it's the right thing.

There seem to be more liberals who think abortion is a noble institution than liberals who are embarrassed by the whole mess but casually support it.
 
I believe that many people who are "pro-choice" are reluctantly so. Many of us think, "there but for the grace of God, go I". I know that I had unprotected sex with many women in the 60's and 70's. Luckily, none of them got pregnant. If they had, I am sure that I would have been OK with aborting the embryo rather than have my entire life be thrown off the tracks. I know that a fetus in the six or seventh month of gestation is pretty developed and is its own little sentient being in there... just waiting to finish developing so that it can emerge into the sunlight with the rest of us. I also firmly believe that an embryo in the earliest stages of development does not have that quality and essence of humanity which makes later term abortions unacceptable to me. I, for one, think that every woman who is not seeking to become pregnant should make sure to take a Plan B pill whenever she has had sex regardless of whether she felt protected by other birth control methods.
 
The forcebirthers are the most evil people alive. Who would force innocent babies to be brought up in this capitalist filth, to be murdered in capitalist prisons to please these grotesque, posturing shits?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
legality?......have laws been passed regarding a right to eat or drink?.....have I fought to prevent you from changing any such laws?.....what does your eating have to do with me or anyone else but you?.....
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What are you talking about? Actions are not illegal in this country unless permitted by law. Abortion is legal because laws banning them have not been passed, have been repealed or have been nullified. Still, in the same way we have repealed the amendment banning alcohol and various dry laws.

You are trying to slip out of your premise and run away from another of your dumb comments.
 
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PostmodernProphet said:
the point remains....who gives a fuck......no woman is even aware she's pregnant at the zygote stage......you've spent ten pages defending the right to kill unborn children based upon physical characteristics of a stage of human development which never gets aborted.....
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That depends on how you define abortion and pregnancy. If you use the medical definitions, then no they can not be aborted because the woman is not yet pregnant. If you use some nutter definition, which I am guessing you would, then maybe they do get aborted.

But, whatever terminology you care to use, they may be stopped by artificial means and if your premise is the right one then there would be a push to outlaw that. Plan b may work by preventing implantation, though it's not clear that it is very effective. Your premise would make that murder or at least attempted murder.
 
Threedee said:
Well, we can always try appealing to the people's hearts. If there's one thing the masses are good at doing - it's the right thing.

There seem to be more liberals who think abortion is a noble institution than liberals who are embarrassed by the whole mess but casually support it.
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I am not embarrassed by abortion, nor do I casually support it. I do want the need for abortion ended. I want to end the root of the problem. I don't want to fight over the cure for unwanted pregnancy, I want to work to prevent unwanted pregnancy in the first place.
 
Jarod said:
I am not embarrassed by abortion, nor do I casually support it. I do want the need for abortion ended. I want to end the root of the problem. I don't want to fight over the cure for unwanted pregnancy, I want to work to prevent unwanted pregnancy in the first place.
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Exactly. Yet the anti-choicers are also against Planned Parenthood and similar agencies that provide access to contraception. Go figure.
 
christiefan915 said:
Exactly. Yet the anti-choicers are also against Planned Parenthood and similar agencies that provide access to contraception. Go figure.
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Not all of them, but the root of the idea that we should not have birth control and should also not have abortion comes from a desire to keep women pregnant at young ages. It keeps them in their place. It promotes less educated families and results in larger Church Membership and more dependence on charity. It makes the rich more powerful.
 
christiefan915 said:
Lol. You're so eager to hang a "gotcha" on me you can practically taste it. Okay, I'll play.

The SC has become more conservative since Rehnquist was Chief Justice and today's Roberts court has four really strong conservatives and a middle-of-the-roader. So when was the last time this court heard a challenge to Roe v. Wade and how did it shake out?
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A"gotcha"?

SCOTUS can't just hear a challenge. There must be the right challenge. The building momentum to that idea has not diminished. A number of cases that limit abortions at the state level continue to challenge the status quo of abortion on demand practices.

The act of abortion on demand is abominable.
 
I do think that with modern technology a new test case fighting Roe would result in the lengthening of time a state could prohibit Abortion. Meaning that they could open the door to set an earlier limit on how far into a pregnancy a woman could get an abortion. This could be done without overturning Roe.
 
If the Conservatives truly wanted less abortion they would abandon the effort to make it illegal and spend that time and money and effort on promoting pre-conception Birth Control.
 
XLVIII DOMINATORS said:
A"gotcha"?

SCOTUS can't just hear a challenge. There must be the right challenge. The building momentum to that idea has not diminished. A number of cases that limit abortions at the state level continue to challenge the status quo of abortion on demand practices.

The act of abortion on demand is abominable.
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So in all the years of the Roberts court no group has been able to establish a challenge worthy of being heard?
 
it would seem to me that with all these zillions of abortions happening, the "right case" should be presenting itself on nearly an hourly basis.
 
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