About where you live.

Taichiliberal said:
Really? Then who (or whom) are you claiming "migrated" to what is now North America? Where and when did they come? And even if we went by your criteria, the Native Americans would STILL have claim that supercedes the European.
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The native americans migrated across the Bering Straits (and some theories claim boats to South America and then up.

So whether this is your homeland is a matter of whether you were here first? lol ok.
 
Taichiliberal said:
That "logic" is flawed.....do some research regarding the Kenniwick Man and you'll see my point. Also, it's truly absurd to say that people who inhabited an area for over a thousand years are on par with some immigrants who've been here less than half that time.

See, we are the United States...but we are still divided....hell, some people are still bitching about the Civil War. So "homeland", which refers to homogenous countries like in Europe and Asia, does not apply to a nation of immigrants like us.
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It certainly does apply. Families have been here for numerous generations, so this is their homeland.

Yes, we are still divided. But then, theories like you are espousing here are part of the reason why.

There is no logical reason for anyone who's parents were born here not to call this their homeland. Unless you are treating the entire culture and nation as an anthropological experiment.
 
WinterBorn said:
I get what Taichi was trying to say. I simply disagree with it. My father remembered his great-grandfather (born in MS) and told me about him. No one in my family has any memory of anyone in our family immigrating to this country. We have family ties and roots throughout the south, so this is our homeland.
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Sorry, but "out of site, out of mind" doesn't cut it with what I'm getting at. As Americans, we are STILL a very much divided country in many respects....by race, ethnicity, religion, class, even geographic culture. Hell, you've STILL got people bitching about the Civil War!

Like it or not "homeland" is from a nomenclature born of European countries who could identify themselves as a solitary, homogenous people within a specific geography...and they could date that back much farther than a great grandfather.

Americans cannot do that, as we are a nation of recent immigrants on the world time line....oh sure, we're impressed when someone can trace their family roots to 1776...but that pales in comparison to someone who can trace their ancestry by anthropological findings dating back THOUSANDS of years!

Long before the Shrub stole into office, we defended the NATION with the FBI, CIA, the Army, Navy, and Air Force....that's how I grew up with it, as did my father, and his, and his. Trying to adopt a European attitude is a falsehood, because we just are NOT Europeans .... and remember, we sure as hell didn't want to be immediately after 911 ("Freedom Fries" anyone?).

Homeland Security reeks of a subliminal nod to a "stasi" or "gestapo"....and for a group who are constantly wailing against "big gov't", I'm curious as to how fast "conservatives" latched onto the Shrub's trial balloon.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Meh....they were immigrants too 20,000 years ago. Home is where you hang your hat son.
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Sorry, but that just doesn't cut it....because Americans DID NOT assimilate into the EXISTING culture of the people who inhabited the land THOUSANDS of years before the Europeans did. This is important, because today "Americans" get a little testy about immigrants who are reluctant to wholly capitulate their culture from the "old world" towards "American" culture....check our history regarding Ellis Island, the still on going culture wars within the former Spanish colony states, and with recent Asian immigrants.

What I'm getting at is that adopting a title from another part of the world does NOT carry the same significance, let alone definition. You can call a duck a chicken all you want, but at the end of the day it's still a duck.
 
Chapel The Evergreen said:
What countries might these be?
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France, Germany, England, Sweden, Finland, various sections of what is now Russia, various sections of what is now China, Australia, etc., etc.

Look, don't go down the road of playing "who got there first", because the people we erroneously call "Indians" were here in North America BEFORE the Vikings and Europeans.....long enough to establish a few thousand years of culture and NATIONS of people (i.e., the Lakota Nation).

Bottom line: the Shrub saying we're like the Europeans just doesn't bear close examination no matter how people "feel" or how many times it's repeated.
 
Superfreak said:
and you came up with that number how? Pulled it out your six did ya?
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Stop braying like an ass....YOU don't even understand my point. I suggest you read through some of my threads to get the point, then you can logically/rationally debate the issue. Or you can just be your usual self and just be obstinate for no reason other than to blow smoke.
 
WinterBorn said:
The native americans migrated across the Bering Straits (and some theories claim boats to South America and then up.

So whether this is your homeland is a matter of whether you were here first? lol ok.
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Wrong. No matter how many times you repeat that or wish it, it just isn't so....."homeland" is a European term....they DO HAVE homogenous population that can be traced back much longer than the current American's 400 (or less) years (that's a general number, so don't hold me to it). To adopt someone else's terminology and pretend it's the same is just plain wrong.

Look at it this way, when people stop bitching about the civil war, when all the treaties are re-established and honored, and when people across the nation can only differentiate by a few indicators, THEN we can all call this our homeland.....in about another thousand years or so, God willing and the creek don't rise. :cool:
 
Almost all of us are Native Americans, Taichi. You'll have to get over the idea that I have some "homeland" that I have never been to just because you think I have less pigment than some other dude born here, because I don't, this is my "homeland". There may be one or two people who immigrated to the US here, but the reality is most of us are as Native American as corn.
 
WinterBorn said:
Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
That "logic" is flawed.....do some research regarding the Kenniwick Man and you'll see my point. Also, it's truly absurd to say that people who inhabited an area for over a thousand years are on par with some immigrants who've been here less than half that time.

See, we are the United States...but we are still divided....hell, some people are still bitching about the Civil War. So "homeland", which refers to homogenous countries like in Europe and Asia, does not apply to a nation of immigrants like us.
Click to expand...

It certainly does apply. Families have been here for numerous generations, so this is their homeland.

Yes, we are still divided. But then, theories like you are espousing here are part of the reason why.

There is no logical reason for anyone who's parents were born here not to call this their homeland. Unless you are treating the entire culture and nation as an anthropological experiment.
Click to expand...

Whoa son, don't blame me for the cultural, racial and social divides in this country. I'm pointing out what exists. Your idea of a "homeland" may not be the same as the guy still griping about "northern aggression", or the "indian" who KNOWS his culture and land were all but wiped out and replaced. We may be a united nation, but we sure as hell are NOT a united, homogenous population.

See, this strikes a nerve because "Americans" want so bad to be on par with Europeans...but in many ways we're not. That was the whole point of setting up this joint in the first place.

Homeland is a name a homogenous population who are indigenous to a region can use....NOT the descendents of immigrants less than 400 years old. Those immigrants DID NOT assimilate with the native population....period. So like with everything else, they figure they can define whatever they wish and it's fact and law. But as I'm pointing out, that just doesn't bear up under close examination.
 
Damocles said:
Almost all of us are Native Americans, Taichi. You'll have to get over the idea that I have some "homeland" that I have never been to, because I don't. There may be one or two people who immigrated to the US here, but the reality is most of us are as Native American as corn.
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Wrong, Damo

As I told Winter, Your idea of a "homeland" may not be the same as the guy still griping about "northern aggression", or the "indian" who KNOWS his culture and land were all but wiped out and replaced. We may be a united nation, but we sure as hell are NOT a united, homogenous population.

See, this strikes a nerve because "Americans" want so bad to be on par with Europeans...but in many ways we're not. That was the whole point of setting up this joint in the first place.

Homeland is a name a homogenous population who are indigenous to a region can use....NOT the descendents of immigrants less than 400 years old. Those immigrants DID NOT assimilate with the native population....period. So like with everything else, they figure they can define whatever they wish and it's fact and law. But as I'm pointing out, that just doesn't bear up under close examination.
 
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