Advice for my fellow liberals and progressives.

Mina said:
I'm all for ending the liberal circular firing squad, which in recent years has taken the form of a kind of purity inquisition. But that's a separate issue. Even if we can get all the liberals on board, I'm not clear we have the numbers to get stuff done without bringing in at least some of the kinds of white folks who pull right any time they hear race in the mix.
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Do you understand how damaging Bernie was to the Democratic Party?


He helped foment the lies about Hilary


He gave us trump


Bernie voters switched to trump

Because he let his team claim Hilary was a monster


That guy who shot up the baseball field of republicans believed the lies about Hilary

He was a Bernie bro
 
If Bernie had treated Hilary with respect Hilary would have won



That is how important party back biting is to stop
 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanders–Trump_voters#Studies




The Cooperative Congressional Election Study (CCES), an election survey of about 50,000 people, found that 12% of Sanders voters voted for Trump in 2016.[3] In the swing states of Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, the number of Sanders-Trump voters was more than two times Trump's margin of victory in those states.[4] Because of this, some analysts, such as Economist data journalist G. Elliott Morris, have argued that these voters had a disproportionately large impact on the 2016 election.[1][5]
 
This was a big component of the Russian attack on our elections



The lies about Hilary that they promoted were aimed to effect Sanders voters as well as Republican voters



It worked



It harmed our elections in more than one way
 
evince said:
Do you understand how damaging Bernie was to the Democratic Party?


He helped foment the lies about Hilary


He gave us trump


Bernie voters switched to trump

Because he let his team claim Hilary was a monster


That guy who shot up the baseball field of republicans believed the lies about Hilary

He was a Bernie bro
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I don't hold it against Sanders. Sure, the "Bernie Bros" were awful, and caused a huge amount of damage. But Sanders ran a pretty normal campaign and got out and campaigned for Clinton shortly after it was clear there was no way he could win. I could nitpick some of his campaigning decisions, but overall he was within the normal spectrum of responsible challengers -- very different from, say, Ralph Nader in 2000, or Jill Stein in 2016, or Tulsi Gabbard in 2020. He wasn't some sort of plant by the GOP just out to hurt the Dem. Nor was he a Leninist-type, trying to heighten the contradictions to hasten the day when the people had nothing to lose and would finally revolt. He genuinely believe in his ideas and really thought he could lead the country that way, and when the time came, he dropped out and campaigned hard for his former opponent. So, I draw a deep-line behind the reprehensible Bernie Bros who made Clinton out to be a monster and helped get Trump elected, and the actual Bernie Sanders, who behaved decently. I think holding him responsible for the Bernie Bros is a bit like holding JD Salinger responsible for John Lennon being murdered, or holding Jodie Foster responsible for Reagan being shot. People can't always prevent nutjobs from congregating around their work.
 
Mina said:
I don't hold it against Sanders. Sure, the "Bernie Bros" were awful, and caused a huge amount of damage. But Sanders ran a pretty normal campaign and got out and campaigned for Clinton shortly after it was clear there was no way he could win. I could nitpick some of his campaigning decisions, but overall he was within the normal spectrum of responsible challengers -- very different from, say, Ralph Nader in 2000, or Jill Stein in 2016, or Tulsi Gabbard in 2020. He wasn't some sort of plant by the GOP just out to hurt the Dem. Nor was he a Leninist-type, trying to heighten the contradictions to hasten the day when the people had nothing to lose and would finally revolt. He genuinely believe in his ideas and really thought he could lead the country that way, and when the time came, he dropped out and campaigned hard for his former opponent. So, I draw a deep-line behind the reprehensible Bernie Bros who made Clinton out to be a monster and helped get Trump elected, and the actual Bernie Sanders, who behaved decently. I think holding him responsible for the Bernie Bros is a bit like holding JD Salinger responsible for John Lennon being murdered, or holding Jodie Foster responsible for Reagan being shot. People can't always prevent nutjobs from congregating around their work.
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Letting lies stand that would damage Hilary and the Democratic Party?


He deserves that blame fully
 
evince said:
Letting lies stand that would damage Hilary and the Democratic Party?


He deserves that blame fully
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I'm not sure what you're referring to. But I wouldn't hold him accountable for lies others told unless they did it at his prompting or he somehow amplified it. We don't become responsible for every lie anyone who claims to be aligned with us tells.
 
Mina said:
I'm not sure what you're referring to. But I wouldn't hold him accountable for lies others told unless they did it at his prompting or he somehow amplified it. We don't become responsible for every lie anyone who claims to be aligned with us tells.
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He allowed the lies about Hilary to stand



He was in control of his campaign



At least McCain told his people clearly that Obama wasn’t a Muslim


He had the integrity to do that


Sanders just waltzed around the lies that Hillary was evil based upon on crazy assed lies he knew were lies


He never denounced those lies
 
evince said:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanders–Trump_voters#Studies




The Cooperative Congressional Election Study (CCES), an election survey of about 50,000 people, found that 12% of Sanders voters voted for Trump in 2016.[3] In the swing states of Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, the number of Sanders-Trump voters was more than two times Trump's margin of victory in those states.[4] Because of this, some analysts, such as Economist data journalist G. Elliott Morris, have argued that these voters had a disproportionately large impact on the 2016 election.[1][5]
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12%


Voted for Trump



He let them believe the lies
 
12% of Bernie voters switched to Trump



Both Sanders and Trump were being helped by Russians


So was Jill Stein



All were trashing Hilary
 
It was Democrat internal beating that was intragul in helping trump squeak out a electoral win
 
evince said:
There is no use in appealing to racist people



They need to be shamed out of decent society

They are brain diseased


Who cares what they vote for


Merely crush them for the scum they are
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Mina, while your idea to appeal to 'equal protection' is valid, the audience you were hoping to reach isnt clever enough to accept rational thinking.
 
Mina said:
Yes. What percentage of Americans do you think are racists? I think the answer varies depending on how exactly you define it, from maybe 30% on up to nearly 100%. But if we define it to include any white person who could react more negatively to a policy if he thought it disproportionately benefited people of color, rather than benefiting all equally, I expect racists would make up more than 50% of the population. And that's a problem if you're trying to get anything done in a basically democratic system. You need some of those votes. I'm talking about how best to get them. Yes, that means appealing to racists. But if the alternative is basically letting the racists run the country into the ground, I'll take it.
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evince said:
Racists will never vote for American Democracy


Shame them


Shame is all they deserve


They are evil and stupid


Fuck them
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RACISTMARSHA.gif
 
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