America Must Be A Diverse Home For All
- Thread starter PoliTalker
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PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Flash,
I am convinced the stimulus would have been better applied had it been targeted at employers for the purpose of, and under the stipulation of, keeping workers on the books and paying them to remain home when the risk of transmission was too high to justify interaction. The problem was not the size of the stimulus but the method in which it was indiscriminately thrown at the general public. Those who needed it needed it, and those who did not did not.
Europe adopted this idea to far better results.
It is logical, and it makes sense.
By allowing workers to be laid off, to lose both their income and healthcare, was poor governing. Democrats did not ask for enough, and it is certain the reason is that Republicans would never have gone for it.
I am convinced the stimulus would have been better applied had it been targeted at employers for the purpose of, and under the stipulation of, keeping workers on the books and paying them to remain home when the risk of transmission was too high to justify interaction. The problem was not the size of the stimulus but the method in which it was indiscriminately thrown at the general public. Those who needed it needed it, and those who did not did not.
Europe adopted this idea to far better results.
It is logical, and it makes sense.
By allowing workers to be laid off, to lose both their income and healthcare, was poor governing. Democrats did not ask for enough, and it is certain the reason is that Republicans would never have gone for it.
NiftyNiblick
1960s Chick Magnet
You live in fucking Florida, Miss Kitty.
You can't possible have any mind left; that's if you ever had any at all.
There are elements of that occurring, but it is among a relatively small segment of college campuses (student government types). There is some dumbing down but that is due more to attempts to turn out more college graduates so that state will attract more businesses, and to colleges getting funded based on numbers. It is also so professors can attract enough students to their classes by not being too difficult. If students won't read they quit assigning reading. I had students who had never read a book.
The "indoctrination" claim is exaggerated. Trump's support comes from white high school graduates and white college graduates still vote more Republican (until Trump).
cawacko
Well-known member
My post had nothing to do with how people vote. I’m talking about the fear on campus of offending anyone and thus teachers not being able to challenge students in class (the whole critical thinking thing).
You know who is an exceptional read/listen to on this topic? Jonathan Haidt of NYU. He’s written a couple of excellent books and pieces for The Atlantic.
College should be about being challenged and exposed to new ideas. That’s where growth comes from. Making classrooms a “safe space” does the opposite
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
It needs to be OK, free, and normal in America to get a K-16 education as long as one does the course work and maintains passing grades.
The final years should be spent in training/preparation for some kind of productive job, or as prerequisite for grad level.
If you can't get the grades you get thrown out.
Everyone must be afforded a chance at a great education if we want to make America as great as possible.
We are killing ourselves as a nation by not doing this, by making it so difficult to get into a good job. It smacks of a zero-sum mentality which assumes there are only so many of these jobs, so it should be difficult to get them. Wrong thinking. The truth is: the higher the general education level we have in our society, the more business ideas will result, and more jobs will be created. An ever-expanding number of good jobs.
By making access to higher education so limited (mostly to wealth,) we instead create a dumber nation, unable to create nor build, and more susceptible to every nonsense rumor and gossipy hateful propaganda load of BS out there.
The final years should be spent in training/preparation for some kind of productive job, or as prerequisite for grad level.
If you can't get the grades you get thrown out.
Everyone must be afforded a chance at a great education if we want to make America as great as possible.
We are killing ourselves as a nation by not doing this, by making it so difficult to get into a good job. It smacks of a zero-sum mentality which assumes there are only so many of these jobs, so it should be difficult to get them. Wrong thinking. The truth is: the higher the general education level we have in our society, the more business ideas will result, and more jobs will be created. An ever-expanding number of good jobs.
By making access to higher education so limited (mostly to wealth,) we instead create a dumber nation, unable to create nor build, and more susceptible to every nonsense rumor and gossipy hateful propaganda load of BS out there.
I understand. My statement about the indoctrination was about that trend. However, I think some of it has already faded away. Some of the policies were found unconstitutional (with the help of FIRE). Some of the stuff about warning before "triggering" statements and some of that stuff got old real fast and caused a backlash among many students. Faculty also fought back against student charges of racism, sexism, ableism, specieism, ableism, classism, lookism....
I don't think it hinders critical thinking as much as free discussion in the classroom.
They went too far such as requiring students during orientation sessions to stand up and admit their white privilege. Student groups began to complain if students called them racist as being offensive and hurtful. When both sides were making those claims it slowed down the accusations.
The Chronicle of Higher Education is a good publication to keep up with these stories. I've got pages of funny/ridiculous stories of classroom behavior; example--college fraternity was punished after putting up a "No Same Sex Kissing" sign after males lined up at a kissing booth the fraternity was holding for raise funds.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Flash,
Agreed. colleges need to be an incubator of creative thought.
It has to be allowed to go outside the lanes.
If some people get triggered, that is to be expected, but it is wrong to allow those of low information and high emotion to control the discourse.
Diversity of culture and diversity of thought / opinion are what makes America great.
Agreed. colleges need to be an incubator of creative thought.
It has to be allowed to go outside the lanes.
If some people get triggered, that is to be expected, but it is wrong to allow those of low information and high emotion to control the discourse.
Diversity of culture and diversity of thought / opinion are what makes America great.
NiftyNiblick
1960s Chick Magnet
Lack of solidarity due to ideological diversity is what's kept America from reaching its potential.
We're a contrived nation of incompatible people.
Some colleges are considering policies to diversity political views of faculty in those fields dealing with political issues (pol sci, sociology, ethnic studies, history...). Currently, they complain that being a conservative prevents faculty from being hired unless they are prominent scholars with outstanding publications. There is a good book called "Passing on the Right" about conservative scholars. One chapter compares it with being gay--they only reveal this information after they have established trusted friendships.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Flash,
That sounds like an exaggeration. There is and should be no problem with being conservative. The issue is there are so few moderate conservatives left. The American right has gone extreme, pressured into supporting extremist positions. Those who don't are shunned. Those who fail to embrace the big lie are called RINO, even targeted for abuse & threats.
America must be a diverse home for all, true. But anti-social extreme views need to be called out and marginalized, not encouraged by partisan lenience.
Conservatives made a big mistake by encouraging Republican extremism.
Conservatives were faced with a choice. Get a favorable SCOTUS and accept extremism and violence; or vote against that and let the SCOTUS be what it will be.
They couldn't resist getting the favorable SCOTUS. And now they are stuck with a serious party image problem.
Personally, I hope it reaches a pressure point, bursts, and falls apart.
How can violent extremism endure? By it's very nature it is abhorrent to society.
That sounds like an exaggeration. There is and should be no problem with being conservative. The issue is there are so few moderate conservatives left. The American right has gone extreme, pressured into supporting extremist positions. Those who don't are shunned. Those who fail to embrace the big lie are called RINO, even targeted for abuse & threats.
America must be a diverse home for all, true. But anti-social extreme views need to be called out and marginalized, not encouraged by partisan lenience.
Conservatives made a big mistake by encouraging Republican extremism.
Conservatives were faced with a choice. Get a favorable SCOTUS and accept extremism and violence; or vote against that and let the SCOTUS be what it will be.
They couldn't resist getting the favorable SCOTUS. And now they are stuck with a serious party image problem.
Personally, I hope it reaches a pressure point, bursts, and falls apart.
How can violent extremism endure? By it's very nature it is abhorrent to society.
Not an exaggeration. It is well established that college faculty, especially social sciences, are liberal and usually Democratic. For example, polls of how the faculty voted in the political science department like Harvard, Yale, Princeton would find maybe 5 Republican voters in a department of 50. Many identify themselves as moderate, but vote Democratic.
I do not agree with the claim that they indoctrinate students (although some do). I had many political science classes and few of the professors ever talked about politics in a partisan manner. I have also attended many political science conventions and certain views would be met with hostility.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...eir-students-more-than-liberal-professors-do/
https://www.natcom.org/sites/default/files/publications/NCA_C-Brief_2017_March.pdf
https://www.nas.org/academic-questi...iations_of_elite_liberal_arts_college_faculty
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_American_academics
My [raised in a conservative household but prepared for the liberalism that is college] son sure has had his beliefs challenged. And I dare say he has shown some growth. Some areas still need strengthening … but there’s been growth.
But there’s no “safe space” if you’re a conservative, that’s for sure.
cawacko
Well-known member
No, holding conservative thoughts on most college campuses is definitely not a safe venture. People try to claim that’s b.s. but far too much evidence to the contrary.
As for your son and others, being challenged is a good thing. Being challenged socially, intellectually etc. That drives growth.
Absolutely. If I didn’t think it was worthwhile I wouldn’t pay for it.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Flash,
And it is well established that police forces are largely conservative. Should there be new rules to force them to be 50% liberal?
And it is well established that police forces are largely conservative. Should there be new rules to force them to be 50% liberal?
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Flash,
Well you can't prove a negative so you would be hard pressed to come up with an example of someone who was not hired to a teaching position because they have conservative political views, but if you could, that would be helpful.
What job application even asks the politics of the applicant?
I have known people who teach college and they all said they have to keep their politics out of the classroom.
If the big heavy question is not on the application, how would a dean even know the politics of an applicant?
It seems like such an extraordinary claim that I still think it is an exaggeration.
"Oh, I'm sorry. You've got great qualifications but we can't hire you because you checked the conservative box."
I think the reality is that certain fields attract certain types of minds.
Teaching college is an intellectual endeavor. Liberals trend toward intellect and actual knowledge.
Authority roles, the use of force, rote training and spur of the moment responses with guns attract conservatives.
That's why most police are conservative. Nobody is forcing police forces to include lberals.
Higher education and deeper thought attracts liberals.
That's what's going on.
From your link:
"Only 10 percent of students overall reported that they sensed any pressure to align with their professors’ politics. However, conservative students reported feeling more pressure than did liberal students."
We have to wonder if it's really pressure or if it is simply conservatives' perception...
I am not surprised that students reported becoming more liberal as they learned more in college. They became more liberal as they became more aware and better informed. The assumptions they had before college were not very well informed. It only makes sense that when people learn what's going on that they favor liberal approaches to solving society's issues.
Well you can't prove a negative so you would be hard pressed to come up with an example of someone who was not hired to a teaching position because they have conservative political views, but if you could, that would be helpful.
What job application even asks the politics of the applicant?
I have known people who teach college and they all said they have to keep their politics out of the classroom.
If the big heavy question is not on the application, how would a dean even know the politics of an applicant?
It seems like such an extraordinary claim that I still think it is an exaggeration.
"Oh, I'm sorry. You've got great qualifications but we can't hire you because you checked the conservative box."
I think the reality is that certain fields attract certain types of minds.
Teaching college is an intellectual endeavor. Liberals trend toward intellect and actual knowledge.
Authority roles, the use of force, rote training and spur of the moment responses with guns attract conservatives.
That's why most police are conservative. Nobody is forcing police forces to include lberals.
Higher education and deeper thought attracts liberals.
That's what's going on.
From your link:
"Only 10 percent of students overall reported that they sensed any pressure to align with their professors’ politics. However, conservative students reported feeling more pressure than did liberal students."
We have to wonder if it's really pressure or if it is simply conservatives' perception...
I am not surprised that students reported becoming more liberal as they learned more in college. They became more liberal as they became more aware and better informed. The assumptions they had before college were not very well informed. It only makes sense that when people learn what's going on that they favor liberal approaches to solving society's issues.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
"The Institute for Democracy and Higher Education has consistently found that high-quality political discussions in the classroom that promote an open and respectful exchange of ideas and consideration of dissenting or unpopular views are key to a healthy political environment."
Professors change few minds on politics -- but conservative ones may have more influence.
Professors change few minds on politics -- but conservative ones may have more influence.
Bai Lan
Let It Rot
you guys should be more supportive of free speech.
I am not trying to exaggerate. There are many examples of conservative professors successfully operating in the social science departments of universities. But, the number is relatively small. Although the job application does not ask the politics of the applicant, conservatives are usually known by their reputation and their writings (especially if they write non-academic articles). But, there have been controversies when departments vote to hire an applicant based on the person's political writings and activities. Nobody is told they were not hired because of their political views.
Many professors make no attempt to keep their politics out of the classroom and some are popular because of their politics.
There is no doubt liberals are more attracted to some fields so that explains a larger percentage of liberals, but that is very different than prejudice against hiring conservatives. It is a well recognized issue although there is debate about the degree. I can tell you that my department head would not want to hire a conservative although she tolerated the ones we had.
There is no support for your claim that people become more liberal as they become more aware and informed. The key factor is that people who are more interested become more ware and informed--both liberal and conservative.
From "Passing on the Right" which is an academic study of conservative professors.
"Few seem to think conservatives should become professors. While the left fears an invasion of their citadel by conservatives marching to orders from the Koch brothers, the right steers young conservatives away from a professorial vocation by lampooning its leftism. Shields and Dunn quiet these fears by shedding light on the hidden world of conservative professors through 153 interviews.
Most conservative professors told them that the university is a far more tolerant place than its right-wing critics imagine. Many, in fact, first turned right in the university itself, while others say they feel more at home in academia than in the Republican Party. Even so, being a conservative in the progressive university can be challenging. Many professors admit to closeting themselves prior to tenure by passing as liberals. Some openly conservative professors even say they were badly mistreated on account of their politics, especially those who ventured into politicized disciplines or expressed culturally conservative views.
Despite real challenges, the many successful professors interviewed by Shields and Dunn show that conservatives can survive and sometimes thrive in one of America's most progressive professions. And this means that liberals and conservatives need to rethink the place of conservatives in academia. Liberals should take the high road by becoming more principled advocates of diversity, especially since conservative professors are rarely close-minded or combatants in a right-wing war against the university. Movement conservatives, meanwhile, should de-escalate its polemical war against the university, especially since it inadvertently helps cement progressives' troubled rule over academia."