APP - American's falling behind in science. I blame conservatives

AssHatZombie said:
And then there was that time we we argued affimative action and you saying it was simply impossible to put white men on the protected list, but then you cracked and admitted you didn't really care because you had two daughters.

I see you.


<o> <0>
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No, I said that adding to the list is stupid, and that there are people in power who think that getting rid of it is a good idea. Work with them to get the right thing done rather than desperately trying to include yourself in the wrong thing.

What you "see" is only what you want to see, not what people actually say.
 
Why do people blame political ideologies for what is clearly a cultural issue - if it is an issue at all. The assumption here is technological knowledge is the cure for something, but what. What if we just graduated really nice, reasonable people who worked together, paid their fair share of taxes, considered the environment, and lived a greener lifestyle. In America money is the primary church, followed by sports, religion is way down there. So how do you make money and can you succeed at sports. From that follows our culture our values our lives. As far as the blame game, that is wasted time and beside the point.

Check this video out sometime.
http://www.ted.com/talks/clifford_stoll_on_everything.html


http://www.turnoffyourtv.com/commentary/morons/stupid.html
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http://www.dumbestgeneration.com/home.html
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/High-Tech-Heretic-Reflections-Computer-Contrarian/dp/0385489765/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1248093458&sr=1-1"]Amazon.com: High-Tech Heretic: Reflections of a Computer Contrarian (9780385489768): Clifford Stoll: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41JMV859CTL.@@AMEPARAM@@41JMV859CTL[/ame]
http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=10817
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Damocles said:
No, I said that adding to the list is stupid, and that there are people in power who think that getting rid of it is a good idea. Work with them to get the right thing done rather than desperately trying to include yourself in the wrong thing.

What you "see" is only what you want to see, not what people actually say.
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You're mentally mangled.

Inclusion of all known races and genders in the quickest route to actual justice.

Your pseudorightous argument is just a house of cards of words.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
You forgot this little bit of info:

Business degrees are far and away the most popular
major, accounting for 307,149 of the almost 1.4 million bachelor's
degrees awarded -- 22% of the total.

It appears the young are distracted from the sciences by being raised in a society that prizes love of monetary wealth above all else.
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I know, life sucks....conservatives get business degrees while liberals become social workers and community organizers.....nobody wants to be a mere scientist any more.....
 
Damocles said:
No, I said that adding to the list is stupid, and that there are people in power who think that getting rid of it is a good idea. Work with them to get the right thing done rather than desperately trying to include yourself in the wrong thing.

What you "see" is only what you want to see, not what people actually say.
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Why is immediate effectiveness stupid? SOmetimes it's easier to just work within the framwork given. Putting all races/genders on the list eliminates any actual discrimination. Effectiveness is never stupid.
 
I blame the Department of Education and the Teachers unions. Not to mention the philosophy of teaching to the lowest common denominator. The whole 'I don't want johnny to FEEL bad because he is in a remedial class whereas Jane is in the advanced class' line of bullshit is why we fall behind. We don't challenge the brightest students to reach their full potential.
 
Damocles said:
What are you talking about? Where did I say we should get rid of public education? An obvious poorly disguised strawman argument, or a total and immediate collapse of reading comprehension.

I simply stated that we need to expect a return on our investment, one in real terms based on what our children learn.

We've done what they asked of us, and they have failed to deliver, instead of looking to find a solution they simply start into how they don't have enough money and people are still buying it. We need to fix the education system, not add more money and think it will be "fixed". What we are currently doing isn't working.
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The funny thing about the leg humpers post is that within the last week he posted how it was 'poor board etiquette' to create strawmen.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Why is immediate effectiveness stupid? SOmetimes it's easier to just work within the framwork given. Putting all races/genders on the list eliminates any actual discrimination. Effectiveness is never stupid.
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Translation: Sometimes it is easier to give up and join in what you know to be wrong, because the end justifies the means. It's okay to be a fascistic if it works to my benefit. Hypocrisy is good for me. Next I'll support centralized banking systems and Keynesian economics because somebody will suggest a law that makes me one of the elite rich.

/translation
 
Superfreak said:
I blame the Department of Education and the Teachers unions. Not to mention the philosophy of teaching to the lowest common denominator. The whole 'I don't want johnny to FEEL bad because he is in a remedial class whereas Jane is in the advanced class' line of bullshit is why we fall behind. We don't challenge the brightest students to reach their full potential.
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Yes, and europe doesn't have teachers unions or nationalized education either.

You fail the test.

Try again later.
 
American liberals hate the European system, though.

The reason for this is simple. American liberals (at least those who invest their time into educational policy) believe that education should become more egalitarian. This means, offering everyone a chance in public education. In the past, we simply set a bar, and you either met it or not. This does not always mean lowering the bar, which happens, but spending money to facilitate more support for those who are struggling/fucking around. Spending money on support for everyone is why education is so damned expensive.

Europe does not do this. European liberals will pay for universal education, but if you do not meat standards, you will not wind up on a college-bound track. In Europe, you are allowed to fail, or to at least wind up on a lesser track (general education or vocational education).
 
There is another thing that liberals obsess over in this country. That is the style of education which teachers employ. In Europe, teachers study pedogogy, but here, the study of pedogogy is really bizarre. Teaching to everyone means making sure we hit everyone's learning style (visual, auditory, kinestetic), and as such, it places an emphasis on various techniques to make the classroom more student-centered and democratic.

This is one of the problems. Differing the strategies helps prevent boring lectures, which are problematic, but taken very far, they lead to teachers struggling to manage the classroom and maintain order. Elements of a democratic classroom are great for teaching civics, but move very far from a limited and highly structured format, and it fails miserably.

I got screwed over because students at the level I was working with this past fall tend not to want to work with each other. Its based upon the student-centered concept, and the belief in cooperative learning as being essential. Well, now I'm left without the ability to get certified, because my student teaching was a trainwreck. There were other issues, but they weren't immediately problematic, whereas demonstrating competency in those areas was do or die.
 
I have a novel idea on how to attract kids into science and technology. Pay scientist and technologist more!

I think it would be unwise to politicise this issue. The fact is, the major discouraging factor for kids going into science is that these fields and the profesionals in them are simply not respected in our culture.

I have a graduate education in science and technology. The general attitude about people like me is that were geeks, nerds, misfits, etc. The stereotype is that of the scrawny wimp with horned rim glasses taped together at the nose bridge.

Until the people of this nation learn to value and reward those of us with science and technology backgrounds you'll continue to see a decline.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
why do liberals always want us to be like Europe.....have you looked at Europe lately?.....
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How comes you can always tell someone from the far right by the smell of burning straw? That's a total strawman. There's nothing wrong with looking to other nations, cultures and societies about how to do things better. What you're advocating is isolationism and intellectual inbreeding/conformity. Yea...that's a great strategy. Be competative with the rest of the world by ignoring it. Yea....that'll work.
 
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PostmodernProphet said:
I know, life sucks....conservatives get business degrees while liberals become social workers and community organizers.....nobody wants to be a mere scientist any more.....
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I do! :-)

And who say's it's mutually exclusive? Why can't I be a scientist engaged in busines who loves the liberal arts(which is what I am)? What's up with this all or nothing narrow minded shit?
 
midcan5 said:
Why do people blame political ideologies for what is clearly a cultural issue - if it is an issue at all. The assumption here is technological knowledge is the cure for something, but what. What if we just graduated really nice, reasonable people who worked together, paid their fair share of taxes, considered the environment, and lived a greener lifestyle. In America money is the primary church, followed by sports, religion is way down there. So how do you make money and can you succeed at sports. From that follows our culture our values our lives. As far as the blame game, that is wasted time and beside the point.
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I agree, this is a cultural issue more than a political one.
 
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