Cancel 2018. 3
<-- sched 2, MJ sched 1
that is not true....point out the exact language in the bill that states that....NOT your interpretation
APP - Emergency Rooms as Healthcare
- Thread starter ib1yysguy
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that is not true....point out the exact language in the bill that states that....NOT your interpretation
What are you talking about? It says that new policies cannot be offered except for those from the exchange.
Cancel 2018. 3
<-- sched 2, MJ sched 1
give me the exact section.....i am postitive that is about MINIMUMS....and/or the PUBLIC OPTION that obama is now willing to drop
don't give me a quip link....
don't give me a quip link....
I did just above, it's on page 16 of the bill, the one that some idiots said would make private insurance illegal, all it does is enforce the exchange, created so that they didn't have to rewrite the law to remove state regulation. Insurance companies are not allowed to write any new policies after the onset date.
And here is a link where I read it (yeah I read the bill).
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.txt.pdf
I'll tell you, I am stunned at the vehemence of your defense of this bill. Not so much ib1yysguy's defense, but yours is a surprise.
Anyway, my main objections are not the levels of coverage or anything. My objections deal with the right to privacy (one of those Amendment 9 things) that we'll be giving up.
Let's just take a simple example most libertarian-thinkers talk about quite often. Helmet laws.
Now that the government is covering you and all of us are paying, why should we even let people ride motorcycles let alone without a helmet? Skiing?
Let's just take a simple example most libertarian-thinkers talk about quite often. Helmet laws.
Now that the government is covering you and all of us are paying, why should we even let people ride motorcycles let alone without a helmet? Skiing?
ib1yysguy
Junior Member
JESUS you're so fucking dishonest it's infuriating. Here's the section you pulled that quote out of context:
SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.
(a) Grandfathered Health Insurance Coverage Defined- Subject to the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable coverage under this division, the term ‘grandfathered health insurance coverage’ means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:
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(1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT-
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(A) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.
(B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PERMITTED- Subparagraph (A) shall not affect the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an individual who is covered as of such first day.
The section you quoted is listed as a subclause under a section describing grandfathered policies. It's eliminating enrollment in plans that are GRANDFATHERED in and are, therefore, exempt from the new rules of essential benefits that new plans will be required to meet.
What you said is completely false. "you fail to recognize that it will be illegal for those companies to offer new insurance to anybody" COMPLETELY FALSE.
They won't be able to sell the old plans. The difference is they'll have to meet the essential benefits qualifications, you piece of shit. I've already linked to what those are.
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text?version=ih&nid=t0:ih:309
Then if they want to sell it on the exchange, they'll have to meet with the stratification of policies laid out by government from basic to premium plus. But only if they want to sell them on the exchange.
Again, those companies that would offer new policies to anybody could not, except from the exchange.
It does exactly what I said it does.
ib1yysguy
Junior Member
No, it doesn't retard. I have no idea why I ever thought of you as a straight shooter.
They can sell them on the exchange or not. Whether they sell them on the exchange or not, they have to meet the essential benefits like not dropping people for random reasons, etc. Consumer protections regulations. They can offer new policies to anyone they fucking want to and tell you exactly how to do it in the bill. You meet the minimums.
I suggest you go back to the last page or two and read what I posted directly from the bill. I don't know how many times you need to see the language that shows that it tells you what is required for people selling on the exchange and what is sold outside the exchange.
You have a big condom over your head.
This is not true. The only policies will be those grandfathered, new policies must be offered from the exchange.
You do that.
ib1yysguy
Junior Member
Damo, I just fucking finished showing this to you, but here it is again.
SEC. 121. COVERAGE OF ESSENTIAL BENEFITS PACKAGE.
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(a) In General- A qualified health benefits plan shall provide coverage that at least meets the benefit standards adopted under section 124 for the essential benefits package described in section 122 for the plan year involved.
(b) Choice of Coverage-
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(1) NON-EXCHANGE-PARTICIPATING HEALTH BENEFITS PLANS- In the case of a qualified health benefits plan that is not an Exchange-participating health benefits plan, such plan may offer such coverage in addition to the essential benefits package as the QHBP offering entity may specify.
(2) EXCHANGE-PARTICIPATING HEALTH BENEFITS PLANS- In the case of an Exchange-participating health benefits plan, such plan is required under section 203 to provide specified levels of benefits and, in the case of a plan offering a premium-plus level of benefits, provide additional benefits.
Gee. Now why the hell would they have both an exchange participating paragraph and a non-exchange participating paragraph if there is only going to be exchange policies available? And why would the say precisely that such plans are able to offer benefits above the essential benefits as the offering entity decides?
ib1yysguy
Junior Member
Yeah, what you don't understand is that "such coverage" bit, which means grandfathered coverage exempt from the essential benefits rules. Post passage, on day one Y1, the new plans will have to meet the essential benefits. Thats how the plans change. They don't disappear entirely.
And I just finished repeating it to you.
I understand it speaks to grandfathered cases, new cases will be met by the exchange because they cannot provide coverage otherwise. At least not their general coverage. I'm sure they could provide just extras to cover things like that huge copay.
ib1yysguy
Junior Member
Damo:
Seriously. "Such coverage" retard.
Do you not understand the grandfathered policy thing? That's the only thing I can figure. It means the rules stay the same as they are now after the bill passes for people who have plans presently. The plans don't change for them.
After the bill passes, you can't offer plans that don't meet the essential benefits minimums. I quoted the part of the bill that says that. You can sell your insurance outside the exchange as long as you meet those requirements, but you may not (as your citation indicates) sell plans that do not (grandfathered in plans).
Seriously. "Such coverage" retard.
Do you not understand the grandfathered policy thing? That's the only thing I can figure. It means the rules stay the same as they are now after the bill passes for people who have plans presently. The plans don't change for them.
After the bill passes, you can't offer plans that don't meet the essential benefits minimums. I quoted the part of the bill that says that. You can sell your insurance outside the exchange as long as you meet those requirements, but you may not (as your citation indicates) sell plans that do not (grandfathered in plans).
Again, it means that you cannot offer new coverage except from the exchange. The grandfather is those who are already covered under those plans, they could not offer them to any new customers...Damo:
Seriously. "Such coverage" retard.
Do you not understand the grandfathered policy thing? That's the only thing I can figure. It means the rules stay the same as they are now after the bill passes for people who have plans presently. The plans don't change for them.
After the bill passes, you can't offer plans that don't meet the essential benefits minimums. I quoted the part of the bill that says that. You can sell your insurance outside the exchange as long as you meet those requirements, but you may not (as your citation indicates) sell plans that do not (grandfathered in plans).
Jeebus.
ib1yysguy
Junior Member
It doesn't say you can't sell any insurance to people outside of the exchange. It says you cannot sell "such coverage" (meaning grandfathered plans operating outside the essential benefit minimums). This isn't that hard. I think you know it, but you have a hard time not being a fucking retard when people are watching.
It says they cannot offer any new policies outside the exchange you dolt.
ib1yysguy
Junior Member
No, the language says "such coverage" not "new policies" or "insurance policies." It says "such coverage" in the context of a subsection dealing with grandfathered in plans. A subsection explaining that grandfathered plans are exempt from the essential benefits minimums, but new policies may not be exempt.