APP - Emergency Rooms as Healthcare

they can't offer a lower deductible....the deductible for a qualified plan is defined by the statute.....eye and dental is included in the premium plus plan and the "minimum" is defined to go up to 95% what do you propose to do, raise it to 100?....or do you just figure that since they can offer 87% instead of the 85% of the enhanced plan it's "different".....

YOU'VE made the claim they can offer more....YOU back it up....

i already have....i'm saying YOUR reading of the bill is wrong

there are not only 3 plans available.... and no where in the bill does it say they can't offer lower deductibles....all you've shown me is car insurance....the MINIMUM

where in the bill does it discuss the eye and dental? all i've seen is you talking about the GOVERNMENT plan....NOT what the private carriers are restricted to offering as you claim....why don't you start citing actual text or jump cites within the bill to back your stuff up.....
 
Running out of money for the program was THE PLAN. The bill was set to expire when the $1 billion ran out or in November, whichever came first according to the language of the bill. They put the expiration built in. It wasn't meant to last forever. It ran out in a week. That's how hugely successful it was. So they renewed it and gave it twice as much money.

they grossly underestimated the demand. Great job! I'm looking foward to their awesome planning skills to save us from our evil system.

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are you saying that the three tiers are the "only" plans that can be offered? this is pmp's claim....and it appears you agree...
I've described the tiers as they are written into the law. It is a four tier system, in order to provide any of the tiers you must first provide coverage in the tier before it.

Basic, Enhanced, Premium, Premium plus. In order for a company to be listed in their favored list it must agree to have at least the first level, in order to add any further level it must cover the level before it. "Premium Plus" includes eye and/or dental for adults as none of the previous tiers include that coverage.
 
I've described the tiers as they are written into the law. It is a four tier system, in order to provide any of the tiers you must first provide coverage in the tier before it.

Basic, Enhanced, Premium, Premium plus. In order for a company to be listed in their favored list it must agree to have at least the first level, in order to add any further level it must cover the level before it. "Premium Plus" includes eye and/or dental for adults as none of the previous tiers include that coverage.

i understand....so i ask you once again....

are the tiers you point out.....the only tiers, in that, the only coverage allowed?
 
i understand....so i ask you once again....

are the tiers you point out.....the only tiers, in that, the only coverage allowed?

Expect Damo to dance and prance and do everything but give you a straight forward (truthful) answer.

The answer, of course, is no. It describes minimums. It even uses that language very explicitly. Not to mention, HR 3200 isn't the final healthcare bill. It's not the one the senate will vote on. Debating it as though it's the final word in healthcare reform is silly.

You won't see an actual bill until October.
 
. Not to mention, HR 3200 isn't the final healthcare bill. It's not the one the senate will vote on. Debating it as though it's the final word in healthcare reform is silly.

You won't see an actual bill until October.

???...so we shouldn't debate this one?....wouldn't it make more sense to point out the objections now, so the Senate didn't make the same mistakes?......
 
???...so we shouldn't debate this one?....wouldn't it make more sense to point out the objections now, so the Senate didn't make the same mistakes?......

Debate all you want. Debating about very specific wording and stuff is pretty useless. Debating about the more birdseye concepts in the bill is a more useful exercise considering there are like 5 bills (three in the house, two in the senate) and only one you can really read right now. The rest are in committee.

Not to mention, you've never debated this bill at all. All you've done is try to misconstrue the wording to say stuff it doesn't say - like it'll eliminate private coverage options, make death panels, etc.
 
are the tiers you point out.....the only tiers, in that, the only coverage allowed?

follow the trail....

the law provides a tax penalty for persons who do not have "acceptable health care coverage"....

Page 167
18 ‘‘SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE
19 HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.
20 ‘‘(a) TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual
21 who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at
22 any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed
23 a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of—
1 ‘‘(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross in2
come for the taxable year, over
3 ‘‘(2) the amount of gross income specified in
4 section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.

acceptable health care coverage is defined as...

Page 171
21 ‘‘(A) QUALIFIED HEALTH BENEFITS PLAN
22 COVERAGE.—Coverage under a qualified health
23 benefits plan (as defined in section 100(c) of
24 the America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of
25 2009).
1 ‘‘(B) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSUR2
ANCE COVERAGE; COVERAGE UNDER GRAND3
FATHERED EMPLOYMENT-BASED HEALTH
4 PLAN.—Coverage under a grandfathered health
5 insurance coverage (as defined in subsection (a)
6 of section 102 of the America’s Affordable
7 Health Choices Act of 2009) or under a current
8 employment-based health plan (within the
9 meaning of subsection (b) of such section).
10 ‘‘(C) MEDICARE.—Coverage under part A
11 of title XVIII of the Social Security Act.
12 ‘‘(D) MEDICAID.—Coverage for medical as13
sistance under title XIX of the Social Security
14 Act.
15 ‘‘(E) MEMBERS OF THE ARMED FORCES
16 AND DEPENDENTS (INCLUDING TRICARE).—
17 Coverage under chapter 55 of title 10, United
18 States Code, including similar coverage fur19
nished under section 1781 of title 38 of such
20 Code.
21 ‘‘(F) VA.—Coverage under the veteran’s
22 health care program under chapter 17 of title
23 38, United States Code, but only if the cov24
erage for the individual involved is determined
25 by the Secretary in coordination with the
8 ‘‘(G) OTHER COVERAGE.—Such other
9 health benefits coverage as the Secretary, in co10
ordination with the Health Choices Commis11
sioner, recognizes for purposes of this sub12
section.

private insurance needs to fit into A)QUALIFIED HEALTH BENEFITS PLAN

a qualified health benefits plan is defined
Page 13
4 (20) QUALIFIED HEALTH BENEFITS PLAN.—
5 The term ‘‘qualified health benefits plan’’ means a
6 health benefits plan that meets the requirements for
7 such a plan under title I and includes the public
8 health insurance option.

so, what are the requirements for such a plan under Title I....Title I begins at page 14 and continues through page 71

everything on pages 14 through 71 must be in every insurance policy sold..whether inside the exchange or outside the exchange.

private companies are not required to participate in the exchange, but if they wish to sell insurance in the exchange it must comply exactly to the essential benefits. Any policies sold outside the exchange must have the essential benefits plus additional benefits. Page 25
essential benefits are defined starting on page 26
deductible is set at $5k on page 29
copayments for the basic plan (30%) are on page 30
enhanced (15%) and premium (5%) plans are defined on page 33

thus, all of the above is required for every insurance policy....
 
pmp......

you just made my point....why you still insist that this is an ONLY government insurance policy is beyond me....all you've mentioned is minimums....and your link even stated that private companies need not comply......they don't have to be apart of the exchange.....

seriously....whats up dude
 
I dunno, because costs are rising several times faster than inflation and the cost of the system will double in ten years?

Nah, doesn't seem like a problem to me either!
What are the reasons? Are they something that cannot be dealt with within the current system? Cannot the government influence/require the insurance industry to react? Why involve a government option?
 
pmp......

you just made my point....why you still insist that this is an ONLY government insurance policy is beyond me....all you've mentioned is minimums....and your link even stated that private companies need not comply......they don't have to be apart of the exchange.....

seriously....whats up dude
....there is nothing here that should lead you to conclude these are just minimums....why do you keep saying that?....this is what the policy SHALL HAVE....period....do you think there is sufficient difference to warrant marketing a 90% plan in between the 85% and 95%...the fact they have that option satisfies you that this is the free market system?......you're nuts!......everything else is set.....YOU tell ME what they can offer above your "minimum"....

they don't have to be apart of the exchange.....
I just showed you the statute says they have to meet these requirements for policies in and out of the exchange....
 
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Expect Damo to dance and prance and do everything but give you a straight forward (truthful) answer.

The answer, of course, is no. It describes minimums. It even uses that language very explicitly. Not to mention, HR 3200 isn't the final healthcare bill. It's not the one the senate will vote on. Debating it as though it's the final word in healthcare reform is silly.

You won't see an actual bill until October.
This is inane, Obama wanted them to vote on this one before July was over, it is just spin to pretend that this isn't what he wanted and to suggest we shouldn't discuss what was in it in any detail. The only reason you won't see any bills until at least October is because there was backlash against the constant "crisis" tone and the constant press to pass what nobody has vetted. Now that it is being vetted his followers begin to distance themselves from the bill. "This isn't what is going to pass," this I agree with. But it isn't going to pass because people reacted. And I doubt anything will pass in October because it will be just before the Congressional election cycle.

The constant urge to defend is strong, I understand that, but ignoring what was pressed for and what he wants would be inane.
 
i understand....so i ask you once again....

are the tiers you point out.....the only tiers, in that, the only coverage allowed?
Realistically they will be the only tiers available. The only place that the private companies can compete will be in the Premium Plus that will not have a government option in this plan. Offering extras in the Basic would be unrealistic as they need to match the pricing required for the tiers...

One thing he is right about, this one has been pretty much killed because people began reading what Obama was pressing for them to pass before they did read it.
 
Honest much, Damo?

Private insurance doesn't HAVE to be sold on the exchange. The exchange is the only place where government mandates minimums for coverage.

Okay, proof Damo is a dishonest hack? Damo still can't bring himself to open admit to these very simple facts because they're inconvenient. Just be fucking honest about what's being proposed. If you can't win by arguing about reality, you need to revisit your stance.

The other alternative is that Damo is a fucking dumbass. That's entirely possible. But it's more likely that Damo's just being a dishonest prick.
 
Honest much, Damo?

Private insurance doesn't HAVE to be sold on the exchange. The exchange is the only place where government mandates minimums for coverage.

that simply is not true....private and government insurance plans must meet ALL the requirements of Title 2 in order to be sold....I gave you the text above....
 
that simply is not true....private and government insurance plans must meet ALL the requirements of Title 2 in order to be sold....I gave you the text above....

No, you're lying. The government is only setting minimums for insurance sold on the exchange in the section you cited.
 
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