APP - Emergency Rooms as Healthcare

SmarterThanYou said:
having had to take my wife in for heart issues many times late nights, i've seen the multitudes of people up there with kids who have the flu, adults with migraines, twisted ankles, and even general colds. it happens. alot.
Click to expand...

There's no question that emergency rooms are overused, to the detriment of those patients who really need that service, as I'm sorry you learned first hand. Many of the patients you observed either had delayed seeking treatment during regular physician's hours until symptoms became worrisome, or as can happen, are using the Emergency Dept. as their primary source of health care.

UMC here tried to institute a new, alternative program called a "Fast Clinic", which was designed to treat immediate, but not emergency, health concerns. The cost was about the same as a regular doctor's visit, unlike an Emergency room visit which is astronomical. It was meant to serve people who couldn't necessarily get an appointment with their physicians when symptoms appeared, but whose conditions didn't constitute an emergency. It should have worked very well; I used the service once and found it very satisfactory. But it's nearly impossible to get around people's habits and perceptions, it seems. After about three years, they gave up and the program was shut down. That was a real shame.
 
Last edited:
SmarterThanYou said:
for some issues, yes, others....not so much.

it would cost less to take a child to a regular doctor for the flu than it does going to the emergency room. The difference being that the emergency room bill is a bill one can practically ignore and not pay.

I have to wonder what it is with the die hard Obama supporters for this single payer healthcare that they must attempt to paint the healthcare industry as it's either broke, or it isn't.

yes, there are issues with the healthcare industry but the answer isn't to replace or eliminate health insurance companies with a government option. Having had an ex mother in law that was a doctor, I can tell you that her issue was that the health insurance companies had way too much power in how doctors handled their patients. They should never be allowed to set rates for care, types of care, and especially shouldn't restrict the doctor to seeing only patients that are insured by their own company.

you want to fix the healtcare industry, deregulate the entrenchment that insurance companies have within the legislatures. but that's probably asking too much from the major parties.
Click to expand...
Bull shit. My company switched over to an HSA program two years ago (and HSA's aren't worth shit) because the increasing cost of health insurance was negatively impacting the bottom line. Two months later my wife had a serious bicycling accident where she was knocked unconscience for two hours. The ambulance trip to the ER and subsequent treatment cost $10 K total of which the HSA paid only $3k. I can assure you, that this is not a debt you can just blow off. You are either extremely uninformed or on welfare cause if you think you can just blow that off and not pay that debt then you are in for a rude awakening if you should be so unfortunate to have to take a trip to the ER.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Bull shit. My company switched over to an HSA program two years ago (and HSA's aren't worth shit) because the increasing cost of health insurance was negatively impacting the bottom line. Two months later my wife had a serious bicycling accident where she was knocked unconscience for two hours. The ambulance trip to the ER and subsequent treatment cost $10 K total of which the HSA paid only $3k. I can assure you, that this is not a debt you can just blow off. You are either extremely uninformed or on welfare cause if you think you can just blow that off and not pay that debt then you are in for a rude awakening if you should be so unfortunate to have to take a trip to the ER.
Click to expand...

That's pretty much the bottom line. If you think the ER is a good source of heatlhcare or that you can blow off the bill, you are totally fucking retarded. The ER is the last place people go because it's fucking expensive and by the time you go there the problem you could have fixed cheaply with preventative care winds up being many thousands of dollars more. The only way out if you can't afford to pay it is to go bankrupt.

This is not a solution, this is one of the major problems with our current system.

STY is a fucking retard.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Bull shit. My company switched over to an HSA program two years ago (and HSA's aren't worth shit) because the increasing cost of health insurance was negatively impacting the bottom line. Two months later my wife had a serious bicycling accident where she was knocked unconscience for two hours. The ambulance trip to the ER and subsequent treatment cost $10 K total of which the HSA paid only $3k. I can assure you, that this is not a debt you can just blow off. You are either extremely uninformed or on welfare cause if you think you can just blow that off and not pay that debt then you are in for a rude awakening if you should be so unfortunate to have to take a trip to the ER.
Click to expand...

HSA? How can they even call that offering health benefits? They don't at least include high-deductible insurance with it?
 
Last edited:
ib1yysguy said:
That's pretty much the bottom line. If you think the ER is a good source of heatlhcare or that you can blow off the bill, you are totally fucking retarded. The ER is the last place people go because it's fucking expensive and by the time you go there the problem you could have fixed cheaply with preventative care winds up being many thousands of dollars more. The only way out if you can't afford to pay it is to go bankrupt.

This is not a solution, this is one of the major problems with our current system.

STY is a fucking retard.
Click to expand...

Using the emergency room for standard medical procedures is only an option if you are dirt poor as shit and don't give a fuck about your future (because, yes, employers and people in the future are going to look down on you for going bankrupt a thousand times).
 
Watermark said:
LOL. Me too. :clink:

But I'm college poor.

It's obviously not a good option for students or the working class. Do you have to go to bankruptcy court to get this straightened out? Or do they not even bother?
Click to expand...

I will eventually have to declare bankruptcy, but I can't afford that right now either.
 
Yurt said:
why not....is there something wrong with that? or are you only satisfied if the government forces it upon you?
Click to expand...

Wal-Mart offering reduced rates for generic brands of some drugs isn't a solution to anything, particularly when from the other side of your mouth you do everything you can to keep the government from negotiating with pharma companies for reduced prices and prevent us from importing cheaper meds from Canada. You guys are so retarded you don't even realize how much you're getting fucked by the people you vote for. No, depending on Wal-Mart to give you a discount on drugs that you're making more expensive by refusing to give people negotiation power or letting them buy them cheaper from elsewhere is not a plan. It makes you a huge tool.

It does nothing to control inflating costs of health care, it does nothing to increase access to the doctors who have to prescribe the medicine, and it doesn't help people go to see a doctor before their problems get out of control. It doesn't prevent people from getting refused coverage for having a preexisting condition, it doesn't prevent people from getting refused service because bureaucrats in the HMO decide they don't need treatment X or therapy Y.

In short, your "why not" answer is TOTALLY FUCKING RETARDED.
 
Watermark said:
This stresses vital resources that should go to emergencies, and puts lives at risk. Obviously, a system in which people who needed medical care could just get it at the appropriate place would be preferable.
Click to expand...

Not as much as you would think.

Its called triage. Whoever has serious injuries or a life threatening illness gets seen first. Anyone not in those catergories gets seen as they have time.

And most of the resources of the attached hospital are at the disposal of an ER.
 
The bills from the ER can be blown off. It effects your credit rating, obviously.

But the people who are using the ER as the family Dr are not exacty worried about their credit score.

Besides there are always Buy Here/Pay Here car lots and Rent-to-own stores for those with crappy credit.
 
OTE=ib1yysguy;488828]Wal-Mart offering reduced rates for generic brands of some drugs isn't a solution to anything, particularly when from the other side of your mouth you do everything you can to keep the government from negotiating with pharma companies for reduced prices and prevent us from importing cheaper meds from Canada.
Click to expand...

i'm not sure why "i" am a "you" in the above....i think the government should be able to negotiate with pharma companies.... i think the pharma co's are greedy bastards as they sell high to US citizens while selling low to other countries because those countries will not allow the drug UNLESS the pharma's sell it for less....i understand making a profit....but BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS....when you're talking about drugs that could save lives....fuck that

You guys are so retarded you don't even realize how much you're getting fucked by the people you vote for. No, depending on Wal-Mart to give you a discount on drugs that you're making more expensive by refusing to give people negotiation power or letting them buy them cheaper from elsewhere is not a plan. It makes you a huge tool.
Click to expand...

so we should depend on the government :pke:

It does nothing to control inflating costs of health care, it does nothing to increase access to the doctors who have to prescribe the medicine, and it doesn't help people go to see a doctor before their problems get out of control. It doesn't prevent people from getting refused coverage for having a preexisting condition, it doesn't prevent people from getting refused service because bureaucrats in the HMO decide they don't need treatment X or therapy Y.
Click to expand...

i agree. walmart's plan does none of those things.....so as i keep asking and even started a thread on, so you could have the floor to tell us how awesome obama's plan is.....what specifically in this plan is going to fix that. and don't be your usual self....i care about this issue, WM had his chance and pissed it away....i am asking you to convince me...and i am not fucking around

In short, your "why not" answer is TOTALLY FUCKING RETARDED.
Click to expand...

why not is a question you facklong idiot
 
Yurt said:
i'm not sure why "i" am a "you" in the above....i think the government should be able to negotiate with pharma companies.... i think the pharma co's are greedy bastards as they sell high to US citizens while selling low to other countries because those countries will not allow the drug UNLESS the pharma's sell it for less....i understand making a profit....but BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS....when you're talking about drugs that could save lives....fuck that
Click to expand...

You guys support these people to no end, until someone calls you on something you were supporting with your votes but didn't know about for some reason:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081214075002AA1TBrZ
(I posted a Yahoo answers because even yahoos realize how fucking stupid it is)

The Democrats have it right on this one - look at one thing they're including in this healthcare overhaul:

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/07/31/negotiation-of-medicare-drug-prices-back-for-now/

Yurt said:
so we should depend on the government :pke:
Click to expand...

Stupid. A public health insurance OPTION isn't making you depend on government. It lets you leave and buy the more poorly run, more expensive public options whenever you want just like you have now.


Yurt said:
i agree. walmart's plan does none of those things.....so as i keep asking and even started a thread on, so you could have the floor to tell us how awesome obama's plan is.....what specifically in this plan is going to fix that. and don't be your usual self....i care about this issue, WM had his chance and pissed it away....i am asking you to convince me...and i am not fucking around
Click to expand...

Again, it's not that difficult. HMOs have HUGE profit margins. They have to. They're publicly held companies that have shareholders to answer to and if they're not turning big enough profits (as determined by how much profits the other 6 health insurance companies in the country are doing since that's their direct competition - and yes there are only seven HMOs in this country. Some free market) then they fire the CEOs and get someone in who will turn bigger investment returns.

They do this by cutting benefits (denying coverage, insuring as many young people as possible, taking all the money you give them for premiums until you get sick and need to collect, then they actually dispatch a case worker to evaluate your file for any errors you may have made so they have an excuse to abandon you, etc, etc).

On top of that, they need to pay for advertising (this is a huge expense) and they need to pay their CEOs huge sums of money to attract the best talent in the industry to turn the most profit.

The alternative being proposed is a Medicare type option people of any age can buy into. It's not GOVERNMENT HEALTHCARE. You keep the same private providers, etc. It's only a health insurance plan. The advantage to such a plan is that government overhead for such programs is VERY low (it's somewhere around 10-15 percent of the cost of private plans, and about 2 percent of the cost of Medicare), there's no advertising budget, no CEOs to pay huge amounts to, and they need to turn exactly 0 profit. This lets the plans be sold more cheaply. The down side is they have to accept everyone who applies, even the sick people. So that balances out some of the gains. Overall, the plans should cost less. If they don't, then you can buy a plan through a private HMO if you wish. Nobody is forcing you to buy the government plan.

Additionally, the mere existence of this plan puts pressure on the HMOs to improve their efficiency to cut overhead and provide better customer service (because they know an alternative exists to their shit service).

Those are the benefits. You pay into the system but it's likely to cost much less than you pay for a private plan and you wind up with the same coverage (and in fact better coverage because you know they're not going to dump your ass when you need it - the public would never stand for such a thing. Can you imagine the riots?)

Why would anyone oppose such an option:

A) It's going to kill old people
B) Bureaucrats deciding what coverage you get
C) It's too expensive
D) It's socialisms!!
E) It'll outlaw private health insurance!!

All of these are totally bogus.

A) Guess what: Old people already have government run health insurance. It's called Medicare and they don't euthanize old people. Obama's plan (rather one of the six bills actually on the table) provides for end of life counseling. People all over this board have misrepresented page 16 to make it say something it doesn't.

B) Guess what: Bureaucrats already decide what coverage you get. Thusands of people very year die because they get denied treatment they need from private HMOs from whom they have no other option but to purchase. The fact is a government plan could never, ever get away with doing this because the government is directly accountable to the people. If they started pulling that crap, the politicians responsible for appointing the people who run the program would be on their asses in zero seconds flat. You'll get the coverage you need, just like you do with Medicare if you're over 65 or disabled. They don't go around denying treatment to anyone. There's no rational reason to think Obama's plan would either.

C) Doing nothing is not an option. What have the Republicans proposed? Nothing. Obama's plan will provide competition to the healthcare industry and force prices to come down because much of the cost of health insurance is profit, advertising, overhead, and CEO salaries. Doing nothing means the country goes bankrupt in 10 years because they can't afford to keep paying premiums the way they are now. Personally, I think they need to provide further incentives for hospitals to get cheaper - like mandating electronic records keeping (which Obama's plan does). But guess what. That's called "regulation" and guess who is going to oppose it when it gets introduced some day. Guess which party hates even necessary, rational regulatory reform.

D) No, it's not socialism to provide an alternative insurance policy you buy into with your own money. Not to mention, any time you hear a politician tell you government health insurance is socialism, ask them why they voted no for this bill:
http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/new...9/08/i-dare-ya-i-double-dare-ya-vote-yes.html

E) Anyone who tells you it'll outlaw private insurance is lying to your face and you deserve to be spoken to more honestly than that.
 
Last edited:
Health insurance premiums rose by an average of 6% a year; medicare costs by an average of 4% per a year. If we could offer an unsubsidized plan that's run simialar to medicare that you could simply buy into as an alternative to health insurance, it would theoretically cut health insurance inflation by about a third, which gives us tremendous savings over time. And health insurance companies will have to adopt simialar models to be able to compete.

4% is still unsustainable, but it's obviously a huge step towards sustainability.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top