APP - Emergency Rooms as Healthcare

PostmodernProphet said:
yes....once my plan is no longer available from my current insurer I have no choice but to get the government plan.....how many times do I have to say it before it sinks in.....
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Okay, now you can't even attempt to spin away from this.

This is clearly the most ignorant or dishonest thing I've heard anyone say about health care reform in about 20 minutes. And that's not a compliment.

Again, the "grandfather" provision is a gift to HMOs saying that for people who already have policies, the new rules regarding dropping people for preexisting conditions or refusing to cover them do not apply. It does not mean that after the bill passes you will not be able to buy a private health insurance plan. That is the biggest piece of bullshit ever.
 
Maybe Damo wants to jump in and show us that he's not a political hack and tell Post Modern he's wrong about this. How about it Damo? Can you stomach some honesty?
 
ib1yysguy said:
Okay, now you can't even attempt to spin away from this.

This is clearly the most ignorant or dishonest thing I've heard anyone say about health care reform in about 20 minutes. And that's not a compliment.

Again, the "grandfather" provision is a gift to HMOs saying that for people who already have policies, the new rules regarding dropping people for preexisting conditions or refusing to cover them do not apply. It does not mean that after the bill passes you will not be able to buy a private health insurance plan. That is the biggest piece of bullshit ever.
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obviously, you haven't even bothered to read the portion of the bill I quoted....do that and come back....
 
ib1yysguy said:
Maybe Damo wants to jump in and show us that he's not a political hack and tell Post Modern he's wrong about this. How about it Damo? Can you stomach some honesty?
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don't go begging for help....if you can't read what's been placed in front of you you have no business being in the argument...nothing in that provision says it only applies to pre-existing condition clauses.....
 
Sorry sick people, you should pull on your bootstraps harder. What? Oh, broken arms? Well use your teeth then, nobody ever got a leg up with a government hand out. What? Oh they have? Well, we don't want ANY socialized medicine in this country! What? Oh, we already have some forms of it? Well, sorry sick people you should pull on your bootstraps harder...
 
i'm not reading how you have to buy government only afterwards....it appears to be talking about preexisting conditions....can you explain a little more pmp and the specific words that make you think this
 
Yurt said:
i'm not reading how you have to buy government only afterwards....it appears to be talking about preexisting conditions....can you explain a little more pmp and the specific words that make you think this
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It doesn't say anything about making you buy government afterward. I told him the same thing you did -- it talks about preexisting conditions. What is "grandfathered" in is the HMOs ability to keep screwing people with existing policies for preexisting conditions, which will be outlawed in new private policies.
 
ib1yysguy said:
I've read it. You've read it, but you don't understand it.
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I read it and everything else in Section 102 which merely describes the "grandfathering" of plans existing before implementation of the law and does not diminish the rights of policy holders but protects their choice of either, under old or new law.
You, sir, hate Obama for whatever reason and will resort to any method to attack him or anything with his name on it, true of false. Your standard or lack of same is obvious. Facts are not changed by opinion.
There is nowhere in the intentionally partial section you quoted, or anywhere else, that forbids buying a private plan, nowhere.
 
Yurt said:
i'm not reading how you have to buy government only afterwards....it appears to be talking about preexisting conditions....can you explain a little more pmp and the specific words that make you think this
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this is the clause that protects existing insurance policies...

1 SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT
2 COVERAGE.
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your right to keep your policy is only available to plans that were in effect before day 1...

3 (a) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSURANCE COV4
ERAGE DEFINED.—Subject to the succeeding provisions of
5 this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable cov6
erage under this division, the term ‘‘grandfathered health
7 insurance coverage’’ means individual health insurance
8 coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the
9 first day of Y1
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there are conditions....
in order to be grandfathered as "acceptable coverage" the insurance company must agree not to enroll any new members except for dependents of members in place by day one....
10 (1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT.—
11 (A) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in
12 this paragraph, the individual health insurance
13 issuer offering such coverage does not enroll
14 any individual in such coverage if the first ef15
fective date of coverage is on or after the first
16 day of Y1
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further, in order to be grandfathered as "acceptable coverage" the insurance company may not change anything about the policy....

21 (2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR
22 CONDITIONS.—Subject to paragraph (3) and except
23 as required by law, the issuer does not change any
24 of its terms or conditions, including benefits and
25 cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day be26
fore the first day of Y1
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what's so hard to understand....if all companies are required to offer only the government approved plan after day one except for policies to existing clients, if anyone is unable to continue with their current insurer, the only thing you will be able to buy is the government plan.....
 
belme1201 said:
There is nowhere in the intentionally partial section you quoted, or anywhere else, that forbids buying a private plan, nowhere.
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dude...it's right there in front of you....no private company can add any members to any plan that existed prior to day one...after day one all policies have to comply with government requirements.....what do you think the words "Limitation on New Enrollment" mean?......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
this is the clause that protects existing insurance policies...



your right to keep your policy is only available to plans that were in effect before day 1...



there are conditions....
in order to be grandfathered as "acceptable coverage" the insurance company must agree not to enroll any new members except for dependents of members in place by day one....


further, in order to be grandfathered as "acceptable coverage" the insurance company may not change anything about the policy....




what's so hard to understand....if all companies are required to offer only the government approved plan after day one except for policies to existing clients, if anyone is unable to continue with their current insurer, the only thing you will be able to buy is the government plan.....
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You're hopeless, I'm beginning to feel sorry for you. Where does it say government plan? It refers only to rules governing insurers plans under the new law but allowing policies written before(GRANDFATHERED) the law goes into effect to remain, thus giving policy holders a choice. It's obvious you and yours fear truth, and so, you avoid it.
I repeat, you have my pity.
 
belme1201 said:
You're hopeless, I'm beginning to feel sorry for you. Where does it say government plan?
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oh dude, please.....are you going to try to deny that any policy offered by insurance companies after day one have to comply with the requirements of the statute.....go away and bury your head in shame if you think you can get away with that bullshit.....plans which aren't written in conformance to the statute are only available to existing members and may never change....can you imagine what's going to happen to any plan that isn't permitted to adjust to a changing market?.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
oh dude, please.....are you going to try to deny that any policy offered by insurance companies after day one have to comply with the requirements of the statute.....go away and bury your head in shame if you think you can get away with that bullshit.....plans which aren't written in conformance to the statute are only available to existing members and may never change....can you imagine what's going to happen to any plan that isn't permitted to adjust to a changing market?.....
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"dude", your ass is already backing out of your lie. Now they're private, but, horror of horrors, lawful policies. The only thing that they may not change are the GRANDFATHERED policies issued under old law...dud...,.er..dude? Of coursa,the new policies must comply but they are private companies offering private coverage and offered as an alternative choice to previously held GRANDFATHERED policies. but that's what you meant all the time wasn't it? NOT.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
oh dude, please.....are you going to try to deny that any policy offered by insurance companies after day one have to comply with the requirements of the statute...
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Guess you just admitted he lied when you said this:

PostmodernProphet said:
yes....once my plan is no longer available from my current insurer I have no choice but to get the government plan.....how many times do I have to say it before it sinks in.....
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belme1201 said:
"dude", your ass is already backing out of your lie. Now they're private, but, horror of horrors, lawful policies. The only thing that they may not change are the GRANDFATHERED policies issued under old law...dud...,.er..dude? Of coursa,the new policies must comply but they are private companies offering private coverage and offered as an alternative choice to previously held GRANDFATHERED policies. but that's what you meant all the time wasn't it? NOT.
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wtf?.....I have neither lied or backed up......the fact they can't change the grandfathered policies is what I am talking about....why is the government afraid of companies offering me the same policy they have in the past.....why can't companies sign up new clients on the same policies if people choose to buy them....why can't companies create new options that may arise in the future if they are better than anything we have ever had before and better than the plans the government dictates?....what difference does it make if it's a private company or the government offering a plan that is dictated by government decree.....the grandfathered policies will be forced to dwindle away because they can't sign up new members or adapt to changing market conditions.....in the end there will be nothing left but policies shaped by government boards and panels.....and THAT is what I meant before and what I mean now.....

if you were too stupid to understand it before, at least you get it now.....so respond to my point instead of bullshitting about what you mistakenly assumed I was saying before, fool......
 
ib1yysguy said:
Guess you just admitted he lied when you said this:
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fool.....if you are too dimwitted to understand what this has been about, it's no wonder you vote Dumbocrat......the government health care bill dictates what all insurance is going to look like....that IS the government plan....it isn't going to make a bit of difference whether you give your money to the government or to a private company....it's all going to look the same....no private company is going to be able to offer you any other option unless you stick with what you had when the government took over the business of health care....and the system is rigged to make sure those options dwindle away as their clients get old and pass away, or they can't compete because they can't adjust to market changes.....

this is just single payer lite.....
 
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PostmodernProphet said:
wtf?.....I have neither lied or backed up......the fact they can't change the grandfathered policies is what I am talking about....why is the government afraid of companies offering me the same policy they have in the past.....why can't companies sign up new clients on the same policies if people choose to buy them....why can't companies create new options that may arise in the future if they are better than anything we have ever had before and better than the plans the government dictates?....what difference does it make if it's a private company or the government offering a plan that is dictated by government decree.....the grandfathered policies will be forced to dwindle away because they can't sign up new members or adapt to changing market conditions.....in the end there will be nothing left but policies shaped by government boards and panels.....and THAT is what I meant before and what I mean now.....
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The only difference mandated in HR 3200 is the fact that they can't drop you from coverage if you get sick and they can't deny coverage because of preexisting conditions. Read the stupid bill, (area inappropriate). If you REALLY want to have an insurance plan that can drop you willy nilly and deny you coverage, then you can stay in your current job or pay cobra when you leave. Or you can buy an exactly similar plan, different only for those two key bits.
 
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PostmodernProphet said:
fool.....if you are too dimwitted to understand what this has been about, it's no wonder you vote Dumbocrat......
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Yeah sucks to have someone quote your own words contradicting yourself in the same thread.

First you say you have to take the government plan, then you backpedal backpedal backpedal to say well you can't buy the exact same policy. There's quite a difference in those two statements. One of them is totally a lie. Can you guess which one?
 
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